How to filmscore in Digital Performer

[MIDI Life Crisis]

So useful at just the right moment!

[Movies]

I just read this entire thread in an effort to perhaps pick up some tips on scoring to picture (a process I'm getting better at, but still find to be sufficiently mysterious) and, I have to say, I found the conversation to be mildly alienating.

I feel as though a lot of the seasoned DP users/regular posters who contributed to it conspired with one another to go out of their way to misunderstand the intent of the original poster's* question.

It's a little disappointing to see due to the fact that, generally, the main characters involved are members I've found, in the past, to be exceptionally thoughtful, well-intentioned and helpful.

This board and the people who populate it is/are an incredible resource [to me]. I sometimes feel, however, that people are a little quick to say, "Go read the manual." as if the manual is some sort of divinvely-scripted, utterly parse-able, easy-to-follow document. If someone came to me with a question regarding chord-function, I can't imagine that my gut instinct would be to say, "There's a book called 'Tonal Harmony.' It'll tell you everything you need to know."

There are people in the world for whom learning from a manual/book is simply not an optimal way of learning -- people who can read a sentence fifteen times and not understand it until another human explains it to them in a different way. Granted, it's not y'all's responsibility to educate these people, but, I mean, you know what I mean.

Another issue involved with directing someone to the manual is that, though it's exceptionally concise from section to section and cross-references itsef in many ways, it doesn't always let the reader know that enabling a certain function may negatively impact a different feature the user is employing. Only talking it through with an experienced user (or completely ruining your own project) will bring something like that to light.

If someone is bringing a problem to this board, the chances are that they've looked in the manual, didn't understand what it said, or were unable to find an answer and came here for clarification.

I'm not, like, a super-duper poster on here or anything and I'm still getting the hang for what sorts of questions I can ask that will provoke a thoughtful response and what sorts of questions lead to a "Read the manual."

For the record, I've found people here to, for the most part, be super supportive, loving, and thoughtful. This is just a thing that I've been thinking about and I felt this thread was a good example.

*Granted, the original poster's introduction to this topic involved posting a Logic video.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

lot of the seasoned DP users/regular posters who contributed to it conspired with one another to go out of their way to misunderstand the intent of the original poster's* question.

It's a little disappointing to see due to the fact that, generally, the main characters involved are members I've found, in the past, to be exceptionally thoughtful, well-intentioned and helpful.

Conspire? You're watching way too much TV. LOL!

But really, there's more to the question than this?

Hey everyone,

My one beef with Digital Performer is it's lack of training videos on the process of scoring to film with DP. I recently found SFLogicninja videos about logic studio on youtube. I found his new videos on working with video to be very helpful. Perhaps one day some DP Pro will post videos of real working composers workflow.

If anyone is interested here is a link to part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh_M5h5j ... rofilepage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What did you want to know? You pop a movie into the movie window, review the segment in question and start composing. That's the process. Everything else is in the manual...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If someone is bringing a problem to this board, the chances are that they've looked in the manual, didn't understand what it said, or were unable to find an answer and came here for clarification.

Or that their dog ate it, or their roommate has it in Japan, or they bought a Mac with DP installed, or just downloaded DP from a P2P site. Frankly, I am always on the lookout for that random question that is easy to understand and only found in the manual. Sometimes even a "seasoned" player will pop in for a simple question they simply forgot or just never knew. None of us are experts on the damn manual. I mean, really, does anyone really depend on the manual or advice to solve problems in software? More often than not, the answers aren't there - and THAT is where this forum excels.

Yes, it is assumed you have access to the manual you find so loathsome and awesome in it's deep use of the English language.

Really?

If you need a full time person to interpret the written word, I'd suggest a literacy class or two. If you're that far behind I doubt you'd have gotten as far and as articulate about your perceptions in your earlier post today.

[Movies]

Wow.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Here ya go:

http://www.nannies4hire.com/index.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[adg21]

I don't own Digital Performer, and I came across this thread to find out more info on it's film scoring abilities. His question was quite simple - are there any online video tutorials about film scoring in DP? That's all. And you slammed him for it, calling him illiterate and in need of a nanny. His question had nothing to do with the manual.

[audios]

I don't own Digital Performer, and I came across this thread to find out more info on it's film scoring abilities. His question was quite simple - are there any online video tutorials about film scoring in DP? That's all. And you slammed him for it, calling him illiterate and in need of a nanny. His question had nothing to do with the manual.

"MIDI Life crisis" may say it all Hormones?

Well MIDI is right to an extent. and so is the OP. Video Tutorials are not abundant for DP, that's certainly an issue for some of us who do learn best from a visual "hands on" approach rather than a manual regurgitation from a tech writer. And I have found the manual hugely valuable in most applications of DP. But.......

For me, it was all about trial and error. Along with some references to the manual and managing to find other forums on DP users that were scoring with DP. The manual doesn't cover everything about all the aspects of scoring in the software, i.e., Using the proper QT compression to insure sync. And what codecs will work for syncing in DP.

I found out again by trial and error. I was given an MP4 video compression to score to and found time code wandering all over the place until I went to QT and Apple forums and yes even Logic Pro forums to discover why sync was a problem with MPEG-4 compressions. It's things like these that could be highlighted in video tutorials for DP. Also, using a VST wrapper instead of the V-Rack in DP. Pro's and cons of each would be helpful in a video tutorial. Researching questions on the WWW is incredibly valuable and worth the time believe me.

I do tend to follow the high road on this forum and if I do have some useful info to pass along I'm glad to respond. If I don't have something constructive to add to the conversation, I just move on rather than belaboring a point that's not constructive to the OP's question or problem. Just my 2-cents worth. (which is really only worth about 0.00000123 cents today)

[FMiguelez]

I don't own Digital Performer, and I came across this thread to find out more info on it's film scoring abilities. His question was quite simple - are there any online video tutorials about film scoring in DP? That's all. And you slammed him for it, calling him illiterate and in need of a nanny. His question had nothing to do with the manual.

His question (and thread title) were: How to film score in DP.
It's just that to respond to such a general question about film scoring with DP is too broad and general.

Asking such a question, framed by a complaint for lack of instructional videos, is akin to asking:
How to write a novel using Word in a Microsoft forum?!?!?

The OP should've asked specific questions... does he want to know about Film scoring techniques per se, as in hitting certain moments/markers, coming up with a suitable tempo, telling a story with music, or even orchestrating?
Or does he want to know how to do those things with DP?

Personally, unless the poster is a seasoned veteran, I never offer help when it's obvious the OP (in general) has not even made a little effort to read some basic info before asking a question, or made some effort to find an answer for himself first. This allows to ask more intelligent and well-thought questions, and, inevitably, this leads to better and more useful answers.

But I insist, it makes no sense to ask a question that can easily be found in page x of the manual. Not many are willing to re-write or paraphrase what's clearly (and beautifully) written in there.
HOWEVER, when the OP seems to have made some research or a little effort, but he is still confused or has trouble grasping a concept, or is in need of a better workflow, then, at least I, always jump in to help. It's a pleasure to do so then.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Perhaps I am just opposed to broad, general questions like "how do you filmscore [sic] in Digital Performer [?]"

Please notice my first response:

What did you want to know? [Emphasis added.] You pop a movie into the movie window, review the segment in question and start composing. That's the process. Everything else is in the manual...

I actually asked him what he wanted to know and would certainly have answered any specific questions. Sync? Bounce a movie? Spot a scene? Get ideas?

Perhaps because I grew up in a world before color TV, with rotary phones, gold at $35/oz., books in prints, and libraries - where I did 90% of my actual learning - with actual books. Computers didn't come along until I was in my mid-30's. I learned to write music by hand and scoring by being in the room with my collaborators, watching live performances or actual films to score to. I'll save you the trouble - I'm an "old guy" at 57. LOL!

My point?

No one can "teach you" anything. In a complex, proprietary system like DP or Pogue Bidule (for example) visual aids are helpful in the setup of the app. But the process of accomplishing something as broad as film scoring (or incorrectly "filmscoring" if you prefer) is not something one learns from a video, YouTube post, or training video. You learn by doing (assuming one had the skills to write music in the first place - it's kind of a prerequisite).

You can certainly teach procedures (which, for DP, I maintain are ALL in the manual). You cannot teach creativity, only encourage and guide it, and even then it is a teacher/student situation, not something you will glean from simply watching a video.

But hey, you are certainly free to voice your displeasure with my response as I am with yours. Our most recent contestant simply states the obvious in his first post here and leaves me wondering what he is actually looking for in this forum.

Welcome. Now, what did you want to know?

“The more intensely we feel about an idea or a goal, the more assuredly the idea, buried deep in our subconscious, will direct us along the path to its fulfillment.”


~ Earl Nightingale quotes (1921-1989)

[adg21]

His question (and thread title) were: How to film score in DP.
It's just that to respond to such a general question about film scoring with DP is too broad and general.

...via training videos (if you read his question in full)

Asking such a question, framed by a complaint for lack of instructional videos, is akin to asking:
How to write a novel using Word in a Microsoft forum?!?!?

You are muddling the technical with the creative. He wasn't asking advice on how to compose like John Williams, he was asking if there were any video tutorials that would give him a kick-start / overview of scoring in DP.

I'm sure you will find lots of video tutorials on Word that will be really useful for those unfamiliar with it.
It's also worth noting that Protools, for example, offers video tutorials that are just fantastic learning resources.

The OP should've asked specific questions... does he want to know about Film scoring techniques per se, as in hitting certain moments/markers, coming up with a suitable tempo, telling a story with music, or even orchestrating?
Or does he want to know how to do those things with DP?

Maybe you should look at the Logic video he gave as an example called "Working with Video" Part 1 and 2. He clearly wanted a kick-start video tutorial, just like that video, but for DP. Come on mate it's obvious he wasn't asking us how to tell a story with music and orchestrate.

Personally, unless the poster is a seasoned veteran, I never offer help when it's obvious the OP (in general) has not even made a little effort to read some basic info before asking a question, or made some effort to find an answer for himself first. This allows to ask more intelligent and well-thought questions, and, inevitably, this leads to better and more useful answers.

I have the image of a proud cat in my head.

Seriously the guy was patronised and mildly insulted for asking a perfectly decent question

And no-one has answered that question:

Are there any video tutorials that can introduce me to the basics of film scoring in DP - anywhere similar to that Logic one, or any of the Protools ones - that will serve me as a sort of kickstart to scoring with DP? I am unfamiliar with this software and I find video tutorials useful for learning a new piece of software. The Logic tutorial example helped me quickly to learn the basics of scoring in Logic. If not then no worries.

But I insist, it makes no sense to ask a question that can easily be found in page x of the manual. Not many are willing to re-write or paraphrase what's clearly (and beautifully) written in there.
HOWEVER, when the OP seems to have made some research or a little effort, but he is still confused or has trouble grasping a concept, or is in need of a better workflow, then, at least I, always jump in to help. It's a pleasure to do so then.

The problem is he didn't ask a question that can easily be found in page x of the manual. He asked whether you could point him towards video tutorials as an additional learning resource to the manual.

Perhaps I am just opposed to broad, general questions like "how do you filmscore [sic] in Digital Performer [?]"

Please notice my first response:

What did you want to know? [Emphasis added.] You pop a movie into the movie window, review the segment in question and start composing. That's the process. Everything else is in the manual...

I actually asked him what he wanted to know and would certainly have answered any specific questions. Sync? Bounce a movie? Spot a scene? Get ideas?

I can only say it again, all he wanted was a video tutorial.

Perhaps because I grew up in a world before color TV, with rotary phones, gold at $35/oz., books in prints, and libraries - where I did 90% of my actual learning - with actual books. Computers didn't come along until I was in my mid-30's. I learned to write music by hand and scoring by being in the room with my collaborators, watching live performances or actual films to score to. I'll save you the trouble - I'm an "old guy" at 57. LOL!

My point?

No one can "teach you" anything. In a complex, proprietary system like DP or Pogue Bidule (for example) visual aids are helpful in the setup of the app. But the process of accomplishing something as broad as film scoring (or incorrectly "filmscoring" if you prefer) is not something one learns from a video, YouTube post, or training video. You learn by doing (assuming one had the skills to write music in the first place - it's kind of a prerequisite).

I can't read this guys mind, but if he was asking for video tutorials then I can only assume that visual aids were exactly what he was looking for. And that using those would help speed up the learning process for all that doing, and all that trial and error stuff.

You can certainly teach procedures (which, for DP, I maintain are ALL in the manual). You cannot teach creativity, only encourage and guide it, and even then it is a teacher/student situation, not something you will glean from simply watching a video.

I kind of agree, but really it's off topic, as he didn't ask for anyone to teach him all that.

But hey, you are certainly free to voice your displeasure with my response as I am with yours. Our most recent contestant simply states the obvious in his first post here and leaves me wondering what he is actually looking for in this forum.

Welcome. Now, what did you want to know?

Thanks, I'm glad I joined
[but dare i paraphrase the the OP's question one more time?]

In case you guessed it, yep, I read this 5 page thread to see if anyone had posted any outstanding video tutorials. To get me psyched about possibly buying DP.
[I am already aware of the Cinesamples ones, I guess I was just prowling for more]


.....(and he waits)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

WEll then, it's either an open market ready for someone to make a killing or the app is so intuitive that no one will buy a video. Or were you guys looking for free stuff. Heck, if someone pays me to do it, I'll make a video. "Large bills only please..." LOL!

[adg21]

Or were you guys looking for free stuff.

Well this seems like a loaded question.
But yes please do one

[MIDI Life Crisis]

if someone pays me to do it, I'll make a video. "Large bills only please..." LOL!

[audios]

Thank you adg21.

There indeed is a marketing hole to be filled here. Question is.... who will fill it? DP, a user? a composer? or maybe all of the above. On the other hand it should come in different levels from novice to expert.

I watch video tutorials on most plugs I've purchased and they do help, I agree.

Not sure if you said you searched for any DP tutorials and had any luck. Here's a couple that have appeared in past threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx-3W_FtV7Q&NR=1


Good Luck, and adg21, or someone, pursue video tutorials for DP...