Which string library is the best? Help!

[Gate 13]

I found this info at dan dean group buys:

Please be advised that you must have the appropriate "host application" to use the libraries. The new Kontakt 4 "pro" version will play all of the above libraries. Please keep in mind that the "free" Kontakt Player 4 from NI will not play Kontakt 4 libraries - it will only play full Kontakt libraries in "demo" mode. You need to make sure your current sampling software will either import/convert /play these libraries, or purchase a crossgrade from Kontakt 4 Player to Kontakt 4 Pro for $279.99 (list price is $399.00)...
This means it will not play at kontakt 4? I have never hard of Kontakt 4 Pro...
any advise?

[jloeb]

Kontakt 4 "Pro" = Kontakt 4.

Calling it "pro" is only to distinguish it from the free Kontakt 4 Player which comes free with some instrument libraries.

If you paid for Kontakt 4, you have what you need, don't worry.

[Gate 13]

THANKS FOR THE QUICK RESPONSE....

THE NEXT QUESTION I......IS IT WORTHY? THEY DON'T INCLUDE ANY DEMOS, OR REVIEWS OR ANYTHING....IT IS SCARY, ISN'T IT?

[timriley]

There are some samples on this page.

http://www.dandeanpro.com/sample_lib/pr ... php?pid=14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The library sounds ok to me. Fairly natural. At the full price of $199 i'd probably opt for the LASS First Chair library myself (currently going for $299). Although for $64, it's definitely worth consideration.

[timriley]

Here's a review from Sound On Sound.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun09/a ... eanssa.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, according to the news section of their website, the library was used in some of "Celine Dion’s new CD’s".

[labman]

I use LASS, EWQLSO, original Miroslav. Especially love LASS

[mhschmieder]

Thanks for the pointer; I couldn't find any audio demos at their website last night, so threw out my info about the group buy.

I did buy the no-brainer full bass edition from audiomidi.com last year, just because it included some rare instruments, but it is thin on the ground, one velocity level only, no legato mode, no scripting, etc.

-------------------

Hmm, that's strange: the audio demos are at the bottom of the product info sheet for the advanced strings library. Those didn't show up in Safari on my Mac last night, but show up today in Firefox on Windows (but I can't listen to audio at work).

Here's an enticing comment from the SOS review:

"While it doesn’t offer velocity-switched layers, SSA more than compensates with its unique divisi and timbral impulse features."

That might be enough to interest me after all -- unless LASS First Chair includes anything similar (i.e. divisi and other uncommon features).

[Shooshie]

Just chiming in here to say that now that I've tried the Miroslav Philharmonik 2 from the "no brainer" deal, I've got to say that when using a WX-5 or EWI (or a Yamaha BC3 headset, possibly with a MIDI Solutions Breath Control converter, all available from Amazon) this little library ROCKS. The strings are very expressive when using breath control. This is more than I can say for the vast majority of string libraries out there. With this kind of expressivity, one might be able to get sounds that rival much more expensive libraries such as VSL. "Might" is the word I used. I haven't actually pitted them against each other. But I can easily get a more expressive solo violin sound with Miroslav than I can get from VSL using breath control.

For $15 you'd be crazy not to try this.

Shooshie

[Gate 13]

Just chiming in here to say that now that I've tried the Miroslav Philharmonik 2 from the "no brainer" deal, I've got to say that when using a WX-5 or EWI (or a Yamaha BC3 headset, possibly with a MIDI Solutions Breath Control converter, all available from Amazon) this little library ROCKS. The strings are very expressive when using breath control. This is more than I can say for the vast majority of string libraries out there. With this kind of expressivity, one might be able to get sounds that rival much more expensive libraries such as VSL. "Might" is the word I used. I haven't actually pitted them against each other. But I can easily get a more expressive solo violin sound with Miroslav than I can get from VSL using breath control.

For $15 you'd be crazy not to try this.

Shooshie

Shooshie, please give me information about the breath controller you use...I always thought to buy one but I was discouraged by many MIDI programmers and musicians...
please advise
thanks

[waterstrum]

I just went to check out the Dan Dean offer.
As of this moment there are only 94 subscribers.
This means that the price is now $149.
Looks like it takes 900 subscribers to bring it down to $69.

[Shooshie]

Shooshie, please give me information about the breath controller you use...I always thought to buy one but I was discouraged by many MIDI programmers and musicians...
please advise
thanks

I play a Yamaha WX-5. It is, in my opinion as a woodwind player, the finest of the MIDI wind instruments. Before that, it was the WX-7. I've been playing these as long as I've been working in MIDI -- since about 1987. I was a professional woodwind player, concertizing on the sax, so I had a head start, but I suppose one can learn one from scratch. But really, it takes a wind player to do a great job with these instruments. It takes time to master one, even for one who already plays winds. There are lots of critical things to know in how it works, how it relates to MIDI instruments, and how to re-make patches so that they are Breath Control capable.

The Breath Control problem is that most sounds are programmed for keyboards, and keyboards require "envelopes" to shape the sound somewhat like a real performer might do. Those tend to make every note sound the same, and they get very tiring to the ear. Keyboardists also need "articulations" to make different kinds of sounds. Actually, MIDI Wind players can benefit from those, too, but if the instrument is very well programmed, they can create all their articulations in real time -- just by playing them.

Envelopes require a starting point. That point is Velocity. Velocity is the enemy of the MIDI Wind Instrument, because it auto-selects a velocity layer among the samples for that note, and the sound can never exceed that volume or utilize the other layers once the velocity has chosen the initial sample layer. A patch has to be reprogrammed to work without velocity if it's going to be expressive. Good programming means that as you increase the volume, the note will crossfade between its velocity layers, seamlessly, to produce the timbrel qualities of the real instrument at that volume. There are lots of different approaches, but in the past the programmers basically ignored breath controllers. It was up to us to make the patches work, and sometimes that just couldn't be done. It's been a long road, but as of the past 5 years, more libraries now are allowing the use of any controller to operate any feature, so velocity is being shoved aside as just one option. It's no longer the king. Programmers are incorporating breath control into the picture so that you get intelligent programming even if you use BC or Expression as continuous controllers. (or mod wheel, or whatever) Breath Control seems to be the best option when it's available. Some libraries utilize breath control a little differently than Expression. Others do not differentiate between them; they are exactly the same.

But for keyboardists, I do not recommend a WX-5 or EWI. There's just too much involved in learning those instruments. They're very sensitive instruments, but they're also machines, and you have to know how the machine works. So, instead, I recommend the BC-3 Headset by Yamaha. It can provide the "envelope" in real time while you play the keys on the keyboard. This is an excellent mode of expression, and the leap in quality of you musical lines will be extremely evident from the beginning. The more you use it, the better you get at it.

You can get a BC-3 at Amazon at a $40 discount off regular price. Yamaha BC3 headset. If you wish to use a BC3 headset, but your keyboard does not have a BC port, you'll also need a breath control converter box.

You may feel silly at first wearing a headset, blowing into a tube. But when you hear what you can do that way, I think any self-consciousness will go away. It's not plug-and-play. There is a lot to learn to get the most out of these. I just exposed you to the basics. It's up to you to find the rest, I guess, but we can always answer questions. The main thing is finding libraries that are Breath Control friendly, or making them that way yourself. You can also use the Custom Consoles in Digital Performer to convert BC into Expression in real-time if necessary. But once you experience a good patch or sample with excellent BC control, you'll never want to go back.

Shooshie

[daniel.sneed]

Just chiming in here to say that now that I've tried the Miroslav Philharmonik 2 from the "no brainer" deal, I've got to say that when using a WX-5 or EWI (or a Yamaha BC3 headset, possibly with a MIDI Solutions Breath Control converter, all available from Amazon) this little library ROCKS. The strings are very expressive when using breath control. [...]

Yes, I'm glad you did. But yet, in my setup, I can't get the Miroslav No Brainer instruments to respond to the EWI breath control. Maybe the big Miroslav library instruments would do that.
I'll keep investigating, though, for any wind instrument without breath-control is a joke. And so is any solo string instrument.

[timriley]

I just went to check out the Dan Dean offer.
As of this moment there are only 94 subscribers.
This means that the price is now $149.
Looks like it takes 900 subscribers to bring it down to $69.

By my reckoning the library will probably go for either $119 or at a push $99. Still not a bad deal I guess.

[Gate 13]

Shooshie, please give me information about the breath controller you use...I always thought to buy one but I was discouraged by many MIDI programmers and musicians...
please advise
thanks

I play a Yamaha WX-5. It is, in my opinion as a woodwind player, the finest of the MIDI wind instruments. Before that, it was the WX-7. I've been playing these as long as I've been working in MIDI -- since about 1987. I was a professional woodwind player, concertizing on the sax, so I had a head start, but I suppose one can learn one from scratch. But really, it takes a wind player to do a great job with these instruments. It takes time to master one, even for one who already plays winds. There are lots of critical things to know in how it works, how it relates to MIDI instruments, and how to re-make patches so that they are Breath Control capable.

The Breath Control problem is that most sounds are programmed for keyboards, and keyboards require "envelopes" to shape the sound somewhat like a real performer might do. Those tend to make every note sound the same, and they get very tiring to the ear. Keyboardists also need "articulations" to make different kinds of sounds. Actually, MIDI Wind players can benefit from those, too, but if the instrument is very well programmed, they can create all their articulations in real time -- just by playing them.

Envelopes require a starting point. That point is Velocity. Velocity is the enemy of the MIDI Wind Instrument, because it auto-selects a velocity layer among the samples for that note, and the sound can never exceed that volume or utilize the other layers once the velocity has chosen the initial sample layer. A patch has to be reprogrammed to work without velocity if it's going to be expressive. Good programming means that as you increase the volume, the note will crossfade between its velocity layers, seamlessly, to produce the timbrel qualities of the real instrument at that volume. There are lots of different approaches, but in the past the programmers basically ignored breath controllers. It was up to us to make the patches work, and sometimes that just couldn't be done. It's been a long road, but as of the past 5 years, more libraries now are allowing the use of any controller to operate any feature, so velocity is being shoved aside as just one option. It's no longer the king. Programmers are incorporating breath control into the picture so that you get intelligent programming even if you use BC or Expression as continuous controllers. (or mod wheel, or whatever) Breath Control seems to be the best option when it's available. Some libraries utilize breath control a little differently than Expression. Others do not differentiate between them; they are exactly the same.

But for keyboardists, I do not recommend a WX-5 or EWI. There's just too much involved in learning those instruments. They're very sensitive instruments, but they're also machines, and you have to know how the machine works. So, instead, I recommend the BC-3 Headset by Yamaha. It can provide the "envelope" in real time while you play the keys on the keyboard. This is an excellent mode of expression, and the leap in quality of you musical lines will be extremely evident from the beginning. The more you use it, the better you get at it.

You can get a BC-3 at Amazon at a $40 discount off regular price. Yamaha BC3 headset. If you wish to use a BC3 headset, but your keyboard does not have a BC port, you'll also need a breath control converter box.

You may feel silly at first wearing a headset, blowing into a tube. But when you hear what you can do that way, I think any self-consciousness will go away. It's not plug-and-play. There is a lot to learn to get the most out of these. I just exposed you to the basics. It's up to you to find the rest, I guess, but we can always answer questions. The main thing is finding libraries that are Breath Control friendly, or making them that way yourself. You can also use the Custom Consoles in Digital Performer to convert BC into Expression in real-time if necessary. But once you experience a good patch or sample with excellent BC control, you'll never want to go back.

Shooshie

Thanks a lot for this great and informative response....the breath controller is the MIDI solutions one?
Thanks

[daniel.sneed]

Done!!!
Volume control reassigned to breath, higher and lower values choosed, velocity compressed and voila! A great bassoon with this little library. Wow!
Not so easy to get my way thru, but once again Shooshie did it (on the other thread). Thanks so much for sharing!