Windows Sound Doesn't Work After ASIO Started

[andysmi]

Hi,
Don't think this is a Cubase issue, so I'm posting here, but if I'm wrong just let me know....

I can't get any Windows audio (Windows Media Player) to work once I've started Cubase. Windows audio works fine before I start Cubase, and Cubase audio works fine (I'm using ASIO), but once I've started Cubase I lose all Windows audio. Cubase has a "Release ASIO Driver in Background", but even when I select it, I get no Windows audio. I would think that it was Cubase not letting go of the driver, but Cubase is not using WDM drivers, it's definitely using ASIO, and Windows is (right?). That's what makes me think it might be on the MOTU side of things, but like I say I could be wrong.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks!

Drew

MOTU 828MkII
Windows 7 64-bit
Cubase 5
Intel 2.4Mhz Quad-Core

[1nput0utput]

This seems to work normally for me in 32-bit Windows 7. I checked with Pro Tools 9 and Windows Media Player.

[juanjotristan]

I have the same problem. I'm using a MOTU 896 MK3 under Windows7 64 bits

[andysmi]

This seems to work normally for me in 32-bit Windows 7. I checked with Pro Tools 9 and Windows Media Player.

Thanks 1nput, wonder if it's an ASIO issue (PT doesn't use ASIO).

[j_e_f]

ASIO does use the underlying WDM audio driver. All ASIO does is bypass the Windows kernel streaming layer and talk directly to the WDM driver. (By contrast, DirectSound and the Windows WAVE API go through the kernel streaming, which is what gives extra latency, and sometime results in format conversion, ie, not sample-accurate audio). So it does in fact sound like Cuebase is hogging the device. But the device should be freed when Cuebase is terminated.

On the other hand, ASIO is notoriously bad on 64-bit Windows. Here's the tech explanation: The Steinberg guy who came up with ASIO, based it on Windows Common Object Model, ie COM. The only problem is that he obviously wasn't well-schooled in COM, and he made a fundamental flaw in the design (and didn't get his work peer-reviewed). He passed an argument in a register, instead of the stack. That's supposed to never be done in COM. Microsoft's Visual C++ 6.0 compiler works at creating ASIO code (passing that arg in the correct register). And we were all using that compiler (including the Steinberg guy) when everyone was doing 32-bit software. But MSVC 6.0 doesn't support 64-bit software development. We're using newer MS compilers, and those new compilers don't support that ASIO design flaw for 64-bit code. So to get ASIO working under 64-bit, developers are resorting to a myriad of questionable hacks, some which don't work well together. So it wouldn't surprise me if the problem is between Cuebase and the MOTU ASIO driver (ie, both are to blame).

Net result: ASIO is falling apart on 64-bit Windows. It is therefore a dying technology. Microsoft has already replaced it with the new Windows Audio System API, ie WASAPI. WASAPI's "exclusive mode" offers the advantages of ASIO, but works in 64-bit. (Of course, you need Win7 or better to use it, and software written to use WASAPI, or "WAVE RT" as it is sometimes called. But that software will be on its way).

So here's the deal. If you must use ASIO, stick to Windows 32-bit, or cross your fingers and hope you get software that just happens to work ok on your particular 64-bit system. If you want to use 64-bit, then you may have to forego using ASIO (set the software to use DriectSound or the regular WAVE API), and in the meantime kept your eye open for software that will use WAVE RT.

[j_e_f]

BTW, if it is in fact the MOTU ASIO driver that is "forgetting" to tell the MOTU WDM driver to free up use of your MOTU when Cuebase terminates, you can probably do the following:

1) Turn off your MOTU. Wait about 10 seconds. (During this time, Windows will give the MOTU WDM driver a kick in the pants, telling it "Your device just disappeared". Hopefully this will make the WDM driver "free up" the device, since it no longer exists).

2) Turn your MOTU back on. Windows will tell the WDM driver that the device has reappeared. And it should now be free because no software has yet claimed it. Wait a few seconds for the driver to get the MOTU initialized, and then you should be able to run Media Player again.

[1nput0utput]

(PT doesn't use ASIO).

Yes, it does.

[elmestizo]

Hi there,

I Got the same problem. When i'm running Fl Studio (on Imac i3/Windows XP SP3) everything is working fine.
But no sound comes out of Windows (WMP,...).

I'm using a 828mk3 with Firmware: 1.06, Harware: 1.01, Driver 3.7.37320

Also installed the AVT 1394 Driver (nothing worked before I did that)

Let me know if you have the solution.

Thanx

[1nput0utput]

The problem that the original poster is having might be that Windows can't automatically change the audio interface's sample rate while the ASIO driver has control of the hardware. Try changing the sample rate manually in the Windows Sound control panel. It should match the ASIO driver's sample rate. In Windows 7, the parameter is called Default Format, and it's in the Advanced tab in the device's Properties window.

ASIO does use the underlying WDM audio driver. All ASIO does is bypass the Windows kernel streaming layer and talk directly to the WDM driver.

I have it on good authority that this is not correct. The ASIO driver does not rely upon the WDM driver.

On the other hand, ASIO is notoriously bad on 64-bit Windows.

It has been working rather well for me for quite some time in the 64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Vista.

So to get ASIO working under 64-bit, developers are resorting to a myriad of questionable hacks, some which don't work well together. So it wouldn't surprise me if the problem is between Cuebase and the MOTU ASIO driver (ie, both are to blame).

If this were true, wouldn't every 64-bit Cubase user with a MOTU audio interface have the same problem? I'm not implying that either Cubase or the MOTU driver don't have any problems, but to suggest that all 64-bit ASIO hosts and drivers are somehow compromised by "questionable hacks" is naive.

Net result: ASIO is falling apart on 64-bit Windows. It is therefore a dying technology. Microsoft has already replaced it with the new Windows Audio System API, ie WASAPI. WASAPI's "exclusive mode" offers the advantages of ASIO, but works in 64-bit. (Of course, you need Win7 or better to use it, and software written to use WASAPI, or "WAVE RT" as it is sometimes called. But that software will be on its way).

Recent versions of Sonar support both ASIO and WASAPI. In my experience, Sonar works much better when using ASIO than when using WASAPI. I'd be curious to know if the same is true for other hosts that support both. Perhaps Reaper does, but I'm not sure.