Copy and Paste during playback issues

[slotz71]

Not that my mixes suck, because they don’t. My mixes rock!

Even if you must say so yourself...

Absolutely

[kassonica]

Not that my mixes suck, because they don’t. My mixes rock!

Even if you must say so yourself...

Absolutely

[amplidood]

Steve is a long time, die hard user, ardent supporter, and hard working guy in a town where PT is king. The issue he has raised here is perfectly valid. Yes, the process of handling audio and MIDI on a computer is a technically complex one. However, older versions of DP on older machines, older drives, older OS, older *everything* didn't have this problem. There's honestly no reason for a state of the art, cutting edge OS and DAW to have a problem that older versions did *not* have, and then blame it on the technology. That doesn't make sense.

The one fact that makes it clear where the problem lies is that if you option-drag data (thus copying it), the glitch doesn't happen. If you copy-paste it using key commands, it does glitch. There are obviously 2 different sections of DP's code that handle these actions. One is efficient, and one is not. Perhaps the buffering code that is invoked while option-dragging should be called upon when using copy-paste as well.

As for Steve's "self-confidence", it comes from years of having to compete in a small town full of people doing what he does. There's nothing wrong with being able to verbalize the self-confidence that we all (sometimes) have inside. It doesn't work for everyone, but it's worked for him.

I just don't want this to degrade into an attack on him rather than on the thing that has been frustrating him.

[Phil O]

The one fact that makes it clear where the problem lies is that if you option-drag data (thus copying it), the glitch doesn't happen. If you copy-paste it using key commands, it does glitch. There are obviously 2 different sections of DP's code that handle these actions. One is efficient, and one is not. Perhaps the buffering code that is invoked while option-dragging should be called upon when using copy-paste as well.

Amp, I could be wrong on this, so please feel free to correct me. I can option-drag a soundbite, but if I select a portion of a soundbite I can only copy/paste. So, aren't the two functionally different? I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. If you CAN option-drag a selected portion of a soundbite, what's the trick? I must be doing something wrong.

Phil

[MIDI Life Crisis]

@amplidood:

Ever been told you look like Charles Bukowski?

'tudes aside, I guess in general I don't see much value in cutting and pasting audio while playing back. I'm not that hard pressed for time in my projects - at least not audio editing time. It's kind of a takeoff on the adage:

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do do that thing.

...

Just because you can't do something doesn't mean you should be able to do that thing.

A lot goes on (as indicated above) in the process. RAM is accessed, processors engaged, drive heads spitting info to and from the disk - all on top of the stuff that happens just to play audio (communication to FW devices, Core Audio and MIDI calls, etc.

And some of us are surprised, almost shocked to discover that cutting and pasting audio during playback is not reliable. Duh!

It is, however, comforting to know that his mixes rock and PT works for him.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

From another thread. Also may answer the question:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 90#p380990" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Shooshie]

Venturing another guess here:
There was another thread with a problem for which I also had to reply "nope, not me," and I think it was posted by Tripi. I tried to figure out why he was having a problem and I was not having any trace of said problem. He found the answer on his own. It had to do with Templates. He found that when he used templates made with an older version of DP, it caused anomalies in the placement of recorded tracks. In other words they did not begin where he had started the record. When he made a new template (or perhaps he tried a file that didn't start with a template; I don't remember) the problem went away. Then all soundbites recorded from the same starting point actually lined up together at that point rather than being staggered over about a quarter second.

Could this be another odd symptom of old templates? Is a template involved here? If so, it might be worthy of trying it without a template.

Just shooting in the dark at any crack of light I see. I don't expect this to be the answer, but if it is, it's the sort of thing we'd never think of logically.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

One other guess, though I realize it's a long shot: is the Soundbites window always open, per chance? Many moons ago we used to notice that performance was degraded with the SB window open. Close it and things cleared up.

I don't know, of course, why this happens. What is the biggest mystery to me, however, is that it happens to different people/systems to different degrees or not at all. There are lots of such problems, and they're not limited to DP.

Shooshie

[Dan Worley]

Another shot in the dark. Maybe it's a plug-in. Maybe it's the UAD cards. So many variables. If I really needed to hunt this down (which I don't), I'd start with a completely fresh and empty sequence and work my way up.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is a universal problem. I think it's a system-specific problem.

I hope you find the answer. I'd help if I could, but, as I said earlier, I'm not experiencing the problem.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[slotz71]

Sorry I haven't been responding here recently... working...

I'll try to respond to as many of Shooshie's and Dan's questions as I can...

Phil O: When Andy is referring to "option dragging" I'm sure he is talking about a piece of audio that is already "seperated" from what you are trying to edit. This is what I usually try to remember to do when I'm editing. I'll use the scissor tool to "cut" the section of audio I want then "option drag it to the new location...

Shooshie:
Templets - I don't use templets per-say (is that the right way to spell that, probably not) I generally start with a completely blank session that I import audio into then "load" the last mix session I did without the audio and drag similar new audio to previous tracks so I don't have to duplicate all my FX chains, bussings, routings and master sends. I've also experienced these problems when starting completely new projects, recording all new audio and not importing or loading anything.
I do however use "Window Sets" extensively.

Soundbites Window - No, my Soundbites Window is never open unless I'm importing or exporting audio. Also, as I almost exclusively mix and everyone I usually work with is either in PT or Logic, I am usually dealing with continuous audio files that I import to tracks, then edit out silence so I'm not killing my hard drives. Therefore, the population of my Soundbites window usually remains relatively small. Also, I do delete unused soundbites frequently as I know this can have some effect on DP performance.

System specific issue - I don't think so. I've had this exact same issue over 3 different Macs, through several OS's and DP versions. I also try to do compete system refreshes every year to 18 months. This involves either buying a new hard drive or wiping one, re-installing the OS from scratch and re-installing EVERYTHING. I don't use Apple's "migrate" feature at all here.

Dan: UAD-1 cards - I experienced this "copy/paste" issue long before I owned one and recently had to do a location recording where I didn't even bring my expansion chassis with the UAD cards and the problem still persisted.

As far as my "attitude, or self confidence", I was trying to be funny with my original "my mixes rock" statement... but I do kinda feel like I know what I'm doing... most of the time.

Frodo, I was a little short with you in my initial response and I apologize. Thanks for your input. I've been reading this board since before the big "reset" years ago and I respect you and know you, Shooshie, Mr. Steele and Amp have contributed much here and deserve all our appreciation. I don't know where you guys get the time to contribute as much as you do to this DP community.

MIDI Life... sorry, you just haven't contributed anything to the conversation worth responding to...

Thank you everyone for trying to help. After talking with Andy off board I've just conceded to the fact that this is just an issue that I will continue to deal with.
Let me say again that I love DP, I've been using it since the beginning and I've made a decent living with it. This is certainly not a deal breaker for me as it shouldn't be for anyone else out there reading this as there are simple work arounds. This has just been a minor annoyance that I've dealt with for that last several years and I thought I'd finally try to reach out here on this board and see if I was alone on this one.
You guys don't need to waste any more of your time on this thread.
Thanks again.

Peace, I'm out.

[Dan Worley]

Steve, I didn't go back and look through the thread, but are you working with WAV or AIFF files. There was a problem awhile back when things would get wonky when trying to edit AIFF files.

Just to let you know (rub it in) I just completed a project of fifteen songs in three days and it was heavy copy/paste/cut/edge-edit and moving soundbites around while DP was running. I thought it was funny because I said I hardly ever have to work that way, and yet, there I was. I'm happy to report that I didn't have a single problem with DP, so I know it's possible.

Good luck to you.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[MIDI Life Crisis]

MIDI Life... sorry, you just haven't contributed anything to the conversation worth responding to...

Or perhaps you just didn't get the answer you wanted. Here is what MOTU considers advanced editing.

http://www.motu.com/products/software/d ... tools.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you contacted MOTU and asked about the feature you think is missing? Have they ever claimed it is a feature?

Don't believe everything you think.

[Timeline]

It's not a perfect world now, is it?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It's not a perfect world now, is it?

Nope, but it rocks (especially in SoCal)

[Keith Henry]

I’m trying to find out if anyone else out there is having or has had similar issues, if this is a known issue and people have always just dealt with it, or am I the only person that has been plagued with this issue for the last 6 – 7 years.

Yes, I have had this and numerous issues with DP over the past years. On three different systems, from 10.5.8, Dual G4, dual G5 PPC, Dual core intel. I used to work at a higher education establishment as a studio tech with numerous Digi HD rigs and DP was never stable there too-if you could even get DP to work at all. Trying to fix issues over the years, I purchased at least 3) PCI-324 cards, 2) PCI-424, multiple interfaces. I've continued to throw money at DP, and HD's and RAM (all of which were tested to be working OK). I skipped from DP 4, didn't bother with DP 5 all together, went to DP 6, same instability. Many of you report stability with intels, 10.6 and DP 7-AWESOME!!! Yet, I still read many of you with DP 7 are reporting the same issues I've seen over time. At this point, from what I have witnessed with DP; there is no way I can be convinced that all these systems were bad, or I've been doing something wrong and didn't understand how DP works, or faulty RAM was the blame, etc, etc. etc.

I cannot count the times I have had (serious)customers, only to have DP crap out on me-what embarassment. I cannot count the number of times I have had to do complete DP uninstalls & reinstalls. I cannot count the number of times I have dome complete OS uninstalls & reinstalls hoping that would fix DP. I have had DP 6 sessions on one machine, and because it crapped out... move the same session to a different rig with the same OS 10.5.8 and DP 6.03 on the next machine and the session not even open like it was on the previous machine. In-excusable!!!!!!!!!!!

My recent episode was 1.15.11. I won't swear that it was DP and not hardware. But, it is very ironic DP was open when the system froze-the dreaded "mac os error unexpected end of file (-39)." And, I was doing nothing at all, just transferring a file from a USB thumb drive to HD while DP was open. This crash caused 13 sessions which resided in a subfolder to be unable to re-open. Why I ask, "if only one session was open could 12 other sessions get corrupted?" Absurd!!!! And, this is not the first time I've had multiple sessions get corrupted due to one session failing. This incident on 1.15.11 caused me to throw in the towel on this CD project, merge/consolidate all the raw tracks, turn the files over to the client with deep apologies saying, "I cannot complete your work, sorry."

I have always been very appreciative of everyone's help on this site. Any way I look at it, I will have to spend a lot of money in the near future for complete system upgrades. This time I know what my fix is.... Like many others that have left the DP camp (I know a few), I too will head back full time to PT and HD rig where I have never had such craziness. Deep down I've always known PT HD is where I needed to be. I always used finances as my excuse, "I just can't afford HD." If I am going to continue w/ audio production.... well, "now I can't afford not to be in PT HD and stop battling DP once and for all." When I contribute as much down time as I have to DP, reboots, re-installs, crashes, counter productiveness and counter inspirational..... time is money and I can't waste any more of either.

I will soon compile a very specific list of my complaints to post here. I have kept my opinions closed for a long time. I didn't want to come here and complain and not be constructive. I have been involved in production for good while now. I by no means claim to know all (know nothing about writing code, or buss design, etc). But, I feel I know enough about the inner working of computers, and software. Dating back to the days of DP 3/Beige G3's/OS 9, I honestly think that was more stable than anything since. I have been beating my head against this wall too long. Frustration has gotten to the point I don't even want to work on music-it's not supposed to be this way.





Regards TO All