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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
James Steele wrote:...Turns out I had some MP3s in a private directory for streaming on Playlist.com (previously Project Playlist) and it got crawled, catalogued by this site, and in turn indexed by Google.
That is SO messed up. Does that qualify for "invasion of privacy"?
I had a site with a few mp3s. This was quite a while ago. One day, someone writes to me and says that they can't download the mp3s. I check out the site and find that the mp3s had been removed from my site directory-- I mean, we're talking serious 404. It wasn't enough to take a copy of the files. It meant taking the actual files!!
James Steele wrote:...Some woman read about it and then later commented that she "googled" my song and "really liked it" and was happy to "add it to her collection!"
Face it-- you're a magnet to the ladies, dude.
James Steele wrote:
I asked her WHERE she got it and that's how I found out about the site. Seriously, beware posting any MP3s of your work to your website. Until I think it through, nothing of mine that I hope to perhaps sell in the future will reside anywhere but Apple's iTunes servers.
You know, I won't be releasing or posting anything in the foreseeable future. The whole thing is rather sickening, really.
James Steele wrote:
Really none of this would have happened if you just hadn't so crazily overstated your case the first time around reducing software development to selling manuals and discs as if the raw materials of those two things was the total cost of production and everything left over was profit... about 95% as you estimated. Can you really expect to say something so wildly off the mark and not get called out on it?
I do apologize for the initial mathematics. And I'm sorry it's come to this. But from the start ive been talking post-development costs, and everyone seems to be thinking that I'm "forgetting" those, when I simply wasn't refering to them, because we don't know them, and we have no reason to assume that hardware development is higher or lower than software.
I was just trying to reason with the silly claim that MOTU is primarily a hardware company and makes more of a profit on it than their software. I'm sorry if this all got out of hand.
I get your point PM... fixed or "sunk" costs vs variable costs undoubtedly differ in character between hardware and software. Whether they differ in dollar amount... well I guess that depends on the products and the level of post-sale support provided.
It is a sad commentary on the state of consumers' minds that software isn't valued the same as hardware, but then again, the only "freeware" available in the hardware realm is at the city dump or grandma's house. Barriers to entry are generally lower in the software field, as exemplified by the many sole proprietor or small companies pumping out plug-ins, widgets, and such. Not nearly as many hardware manufacturers work from their bedrooms. The solder gets in your eyes and the hole punch irritates the significant other.
We are certainly experiencing first hand that well-know ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
By the way, were the T-Shirt and swag manufacturers (the major - even sole - profit center for many of today's working musicians) showing their wares at NAMM, Frodo?
In creating web examples, there's a harsh battle between wanting to get music out there, without compromising your IP integrity. What I've decided, in this age of portable mp3 players, is that I'm okay with my music being on my site as long as you haveto be on the site to listen to it. Listen to music online isn't practical for most people, but it is good for initially demoing new music. So they can check me out on my website via a flash app, but if they want to listen to it elsewhere, they gotta pay.
HCMarkus wrote:I get your point PM... fixed or "sunk" costs vs variable costs undoubtedly differ in character between hardware and software. Whether they differ in dollar amount... well I guess that depends on the products and the level of post-sale support provided.
HCMarkus "Will Play for Food"
Used to be called NRE or non-reoccurring engineering costs. Had to deal with it when I worked in aerospace when getting quotes for custom hardware or parts made.
The GUI redesign looks nice, and the scripting demos looked good too. I hope MOTU does well with it.
That said, I upgraded from Kontakt player to the full version of Kontakt a few years ago to run the Scarbee Vintage Keyboard libraries, and never upgraded my copy of Mach Five to v2. If my financial situation improves when M5 v3 is released, and the price is right, I might pick it up just for fun, but I don't need it.
Prime Mover wrote:In creating web examples, there's a harsh battle between wanting to get music out there, without compromising your IP integrity. What I've decided, in this age of portable mp3 players, is that I'm okay with my music being on my site as long as you haveto be on the site to listen to it. Listen to music online isn't practical for most people, but it is good for initially demoing new music. So they can check me out on my website via a flash app, but if they want to listen to it elsewhere, they gotta pay.
That is a good plan.
I'm not sure how I would react if I encountered the situation James describes above. On the one hand it would be great to get radio airplay, but on the other, it is an unreleased track that no one should have, so that is definitely not cool on the part of the station.
MacPro5,1 2012, six core 2 x 3.06, 10.12.5, Digital Performer 9.13, 40 gb ram, 828mkIII, 2408 mkII, MTP AV, Logic Pro X 10.3.1, Studio One v 3.2, Pro Tools 12.7.1
The GUI redesign looks nice, and the scripting demos looked good too. I hope MOTU does well with it.
That said, I upgraded from Kontakt player to the full version of Kontakt a few years ago to run the Scarbee Vintage Keyboard libraries, and never upgraded my copy of Mach Five to v2. If my financial situation improves when M5 v3 is released, and the price is right, I might pick it up just for fun, but I don't need it.
Most of us are in a similar situation, and it will all depend on the release details. The new version looks fantastic, but, like you say, with all the Kontakt stuff I've acquired lately, this is not a must have item.
MacPro5,1 2012, six core 2 x 3.06, 10.12.5, Digital Performer 9.13, 40 gb ram, 828mkIII, 2408 mkII, MTP AV, Logic Pro X 10.3.1, Studio One v 3.2, Pro Tools 12.7.1
Yup. Kind of an impasse, is it not? Unfortunate what can happen when there are five years between releases. As has been said many times in this thread: time is money.
So, what to do? How does MOTU wound the nearest giants, Logic and Kontakt, using what they have at hand in the most effective way possible? How do they make that consonant with ensuring some kind market for M5, even among a MOTU user base already awash in Kontakt instruments?
A: Bundle now.
And then let UVI do what it does best and most rapidly: generate high-end sound libraries for this new and, suddenly, widely dispersed Kontakt-equvalent. Sell that sound library content, at least two major releases per year.
Outlay now in order to grow market share and recoup costs (and then some) later.
Logic's EXS is easy to beat: it's already beaten, based simply upon what we saw in the video. Which, upon bundling, instantly changes the calculus for every new potential DAW customer.
Kontakt is tied. There's nothing in that video that Kontakt doesn't do. The included instrument set with M5 looks somewhat nicer, but their equivalents have been available from third parties for a while now and are not very expensive.
However: NI doesn't have a DAW to sell. Include one, and NI is outflanked too.
Financial realities for MOTU and UVI may or may not allow this kind of strategy (which is inherently about expansion, as opposed to milking the existing customer base). But if feasible, it's certainly worth thinking hard about.
Back to the subject of bundling M5 and MSI into DP, there is one problem with bundling. It makes people think that the instruments included in the bundle are really what the product is about. Never mind all the recording and MIDI innovations, themes, superior interface or whatever. Newcomers to this business will think the DAW with the mostest, coolest, and bestest instruments is the hottest DAW. At least the way MOTU has marketed DP has forced people to consider it on its own merits, and not base their opinions on the bundled instruments. I mean, I think the instruments bundled with DP are pretty cool, and they open tons of possibilities when you use your head and layer them on each other, with effects, etc., but anyone can see that they were never meant to be the last thing you'd ever need. They're just sort of "courtesy instruments" to give you something to use until Mom and Dad can get you something else for your next birthday. (I'm presuming that older people would be more likely to judge the merits of the DAWs themselves)
With that in mind, if MOTU decides to bundle anything with DP, it had better be good. MachFive has the best interface I've seen in any sampler. It include MIDI Learn for just about every feature in the interface. It's got deep and amazing power, is scriptable, and has the ability to layer effects groups for outstanding control. Again, it's the subject of bundled instruments that worries me. I suggested MSI, but frankly it sounds "old school" and is hard to blend with a high-quality studio recording. Maybe the bundled sounds that come with M5 would be enough. Maybe MX4 would also make a good piece of a bundle.
I don't want to give the wrong impression; I don't think DP needs any spicing up. It's the best DAW on the planet as far as I'm concerned. You could give me the most expensive installation of Pro Tools, and I'd still use DP. It's M5, MX4, and MSI that I'm concerned about. They're sitting out there all abandoned-like, and I don't see anyone really needing them for anything, as the competition has passed them up for one reason or another -- usually having more to do with attention to upgrades and support. I'd rather see those products get bundled with DP to make an amazing package-deal that garners a lot of attention than to see them waste away unused and uncared for. They could still sell them separately; that wouldn't be a loss. But importantly, they'd be getting USED and people would be seeing how much they can get out of them -- and DP.
But bundle or no bundle, DP is still the best DAW out there. I pity anyone who buys Logic for its instruments.
Shooshie
|l|OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0|l|2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012|l|40GB RAM|l|Mach5.3|l|Waves 9.x|l|Altiverb|l|Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l|Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes|l|Garritan Aria|l|VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l|Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller|l|Roland FC-300|l|
Shooshie wrote:I don't want to give the wrong impression; I don't think DP needs any spicing up. It's the best DAW on the planet as far as I'm concerned. You could give me the most expensive installation of Pro Tools, and I'd still use DP. It's M5, MX4, and MSI that I'm concerned about. They're sitting out there all abandoned-like, and I don't see anyone really needing them for anything, as the competition has passed them up for one reason or another -- usually having more to do with attention to upgrades and support. I'd rather see those products get bundled with DP to make an amazing package-deal that garners a lot of attention than to see them waste away unused and uncared for. They could still sell them separately; that wouldn't be a loss. But importantly, they'd be getting USED and people would be seeing how much they can get out of them -- and DP.
But bundle or no bundle, DP is still the best DAW out there. I pity anyone who buys Logic for its instruments.
James Steele wrote:I just found out my site got crawled by a site the finds all MP3s on the net. Turns out I had some MP3s in a private directory for streaming on Playlist.com (previously Project Playlist) and it got crawled, catalogued by this site, and in turn indexed by Google.
You should read about robots.txt files to keep Google and friends out of your private bits.
DP 11.newest on MacBook Air M2 24/2T
Korg Kronos Klassic Keyboard 88, Line 6 Helix
Thousands of $'s worth of vintage gear currently valued in the dozens of dollars.
Shooshie wrote:...[it's] M5, MX4, and MSI that I'm concerned about.
Same here--- BUT (and a very big butt)-- MX4 and MSI are in a different category. I'd also mention BPM and Ethno as having feet of their own. Electric Keys? Volta? Not completely sure how they stand and don't feel equipped to make an assessment.
M5 is a whole other animal. It could potentially be MOTU's flagship instrument. It all has just gotten so confusing at this point.
