Audio MIDI Setup doesn't remember arrangement...RESOLVED

[bayswater]

Didn't happen on Leopard for me on my G5. But I went straight to Snow Leopard when I got my Mac Pro and that's when it happened. It looks like this is a bug introduced with Snow Leopard.

Are you powering up everything except the Mac first? I am not seeing this problem, or the other one mentioned where only one bank of inputs are shown for interfaces. Mac is on an unswitched power supply and everything else linked to one switch that goes on first. I wait a bit for the interfaces to go through their startup, then power up the Mac. If I don't do this, I find intermittent odd behaviour in USB, FW and ethernet.

[Frodo]

I've had this happen but I'm not quite sure what causes it because it doesn't happen all the time. I can't confirm this just yet, but I've noticed that when I've updated OSX or when I've had to delete a Preference file, a variety of things get jumbled, including AMS.

I agree that it's not a DP thing.

[mhschmieder]

It hadn't occurred to me to add controller-only devices that don't have USB or Firewire, as I thought that was the only reason for adding such devices to AMS.

So, what is the advantage to doing this, given that they are input-only devices and aren't used as sound sources either?

[SmilesLots]

I had this problem many times, what with 16 devices an two mtp-ac's. What seemed to work for me was to start from scratch and add new devices in the exact order I wanted them to appear across the screen - 30 in cinema. Then no ugly looking cross wires and such. But it did take the whole screen horizontally.

[Jawknee]

Well, I followed dp-user's hints and sure enough, every Audio MIDI config has a .mcfg file. I've also discovered that the geometries are in there - and they even update in real time: if I move an icon on the screen, the file is updated immediately. I just can't get the tool to honor the value. Just switching configurations looses the position on the screen.

I am doing one odd thing... I've got custom images for all of my gear - I had to track down the dir with Snow Leopard ( ~/Library/Audio/MIDI Devices/Custom/Images/ as a .tiff file) so I thought that might be related. I tried creating a default config with one device - as soon as I did, a new mcfg file appeared, and the geometry updated in the file when I moved the icon, but as soon as I switch configs or restart Audio MIDI Setup, it would revert.

If I get the time, I may try backing up and moving the configs and anything else I can find. I'll let ya know.

-jk

[monkey man]

Jawknee, FWIW:

No issues ever here, only that old gem where multiple interfaces show up every other year.

No USB etc hooked up in AMS, only MIDI cables, so to speak. 14 devices. Custom images.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]What seemed to work for me was to start from scratch and add new devices in the exact order I wanted them to appear across the screen - 30 in cinema. Then no ugly looking cross wires and such. But it did take the whole screen horizontally.

That makes sense. I'll try this one. Thanks SmilesLots!

[MellowDios]

New to this forum. I do have an MTP-AV in my system, so hopefully that qualifies me.

Read this thread with interest as I just upgraded OS X from 10.5.8 to 10.6.3 then 10.6.4 yesterday. Audio MIDI Setup worked perfectly in 10.5.8, not so with 10.6.4.

Tried all the suggestions here and elsewhere, e.g., trashing preferences, creating a new configuration. Nothing worked (even disconnecting then reconnecting a USB cable from a MIDI device would scramble those pesky wires on the AMS screen. PITA, indeed!

I did however find what I think may be a stable workaround.

As noted here previously, the AMS configuration files (for as many configs as you want to create) reside at:

User/Library/Audio/MIDI Configurations/

in a file called <configuration name>.mcfg

This is an editable XML file in the form of a plist. Like a plist, if you trash it, AMS will recreate it in the same form, when you load AMS. In fact, if you trash the mcfg file while AMS is open, it will recreate it as soon as you move anything in the MIDI Setup screen.

The problem of course, seems to be that AMS creates the file in the same configuration, i.e., crossed wires, no matter what. BTW, I did try disconnecting all the wires to the MTP-AV, and reconnecting them in the order that AMS placed the external devices. This worked, i.e., AMS remembered the new wiring scheme. However, it also meant I would have had to physically re-cable my MIDI system. Not fun!

So here's what seems to work, so far:

1. In AMS, configure the screen the way you want it.

2. Take a screen grab of it, for reference.

3. Close AMS.

4. Open the mcfg file in TextEdit.

5. Note that each MIDI module is defined at the second level of <dict></dict> code, which makes it easy enough to identify the beginning and end of each module definition. Carefully, cut and paste the appropriate sections of code, until they are in the order you prefer.

6. Save the mcfg file, overwriting the original file created by AMS.

7. Launch AMS. Voila! The modules should be in the order you created in the mcfg file.

It worked for me, and I got so excited, I wanted to let everyone on this thread know, as the discussion here has been very helpful. Though I realize it's been a few months since this thread has been active.

I haven't tried hard coding the screen positions yet, but will do in the next couple of days. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work as well.

True, this workaround is a bit of work. But seems to do the trick.

Of course, if you change your MIDI setup, I'd recommend making a copy of the mcfg file, so you will have less editing to do to get things looking the way you'd like.

I found it very odd, that in the Apple Discussion Forum there are numerous complaints about this issue, but not one response from Apple. We can only assume they're working on it, I guess.

Cheers to all,

-Wayne

[MellowDios]

Update on AMS screen config issue.

First, I did try hard coding the x,y screen locations in the mcfg file. In fact, it wasn't necessary. As reported here by another member, the screen positions are updated automatically when you reconfigure the AMS MIDI window with your mouse.

So realizing that, I set up my MIDI window the way I'd like it, then looked at the mcfg file, and the com.apple.MIDI<bunch of numbers> plist file, using a shareware utitlity called PrefEdit. Both files had been updated by the changes I had made, so I saved copies of them for future use, if needed.

However, the changes were not remembered on closing and reopening AMS. Drag!

As I was now out of ideas, I contacted Apple Tech Support.

Btw, anyone who has recently upgraded to OS X 10.6 is elegible for 90 days free tech support from Apple (more on this later).

After, speaking to the Apple rep for an hour on Friday, I decided to do a comprehensive cleanup on my system (using another utility called Applejack), then reinstalled 10.6.3 and the update to 10.6.4. The Apple Tech Support rep tells me that a clean install is not necessary, as the 10.6 installer is the most secure, from a data point of view, and most robust ever.

After the reinstall, the problem was still there. I then proceeded to send Apple a number of files, including prefs, movies of me making the changes in AMS, and a data capture file from my entire system.

The data was sent to Apple engineering. Here's how they replied:

The problem is a Mac OS X issue, they've known about ever since the first generation of 10.6. They don't have a fix, but they're working on it, i.e., it's on the list! Here's the rub:

Engineering gives priority to the issues they receive the most reports about. What the Tech Support rep recommended was for everyone who experiences this problem in AMS to report it to Apple. The more reports they get, the sooner they'll fix the problem.

So if you are experiencing this or any other problem you think might be related, REPORT IT TO APPLE! You can do this whether you have free tech support or not, because it involves a known Mac OS issue. Send Apple Tech Support an e-mail.

And no, the problem has not been fixed in 10.6.5.

What further complicates the issue is that the problem might not be confined to AMS. The pref files are read by the Mac OS, and that data is made available to the application. I have discovered at least one other application that is not reading changes in the pref file (though the altered data is there when I look at the file using PrefEdit).

I'm uncertain which other applications might be affected. I know there is an existing issue with setting up aggregate devices in the audio portion of AMS, which can be worked around by changing the folder permissions on the User/Library/Preferences folder. However, this approach did not work for configuring the MIDI window.

So that's about it. Hope this information helps.

Kind regards to all,

-Wayne

[monkey man]

Jawknee, FWIW:

No issues ever here, only that old gem where multiple interfaces show up every other year.

No USB etc hooked up in AMS, only MIDI cables, so to speak. 14 devices. Custom images.

Correctional update:
When I installed SL in an effort to "fix" the 7.21 resource offset issue, I too experienced the problem. Solved when I reverted to 7.12.

Given what you've told us, Wayne, this makes sense.

What I don't get is why it should become an issue when it was already perfectly functional for years. Perhaps it's related to the slimming down of Apple's apps in SL.

[bjornln]

I had similar problems (if I understand this issue correctly) when my mtp-av's needed new batteries.
Also, there can be very odd behavior when USB hub's breaking down or not getting enough power.

/B

[David Polich]

I had similar problems (if I understand this issue correctly) when my mtp-av's needed new batteries.
Also, there can be very odd behavior when USB hub's breaking down or not getting enough power.

/B

Interesting that you mention the batteries issue, because it may be
related to my problems with my MTP AV.

On my old G5, I could open AMS and click on "test setup" and then
click on any receiving hardware device's icon and the device would
emit a note. Now on my MacPro I can no longer do this - clicking
on a device's icon produces nothing. Furthermore, when I first
launch DP after booting up, I can't get any record-enable receiving
device to respond from my keyboard controller unless I play some
existing MIDI data into it, or else open up its MIDI track and
use the pencil tool to create a new note, thus triggering the device.
This basically "jump-starts" my MIDI system and then I'm fine for
the whole day.

I called MOTU tech support about this two weeks ago and they had no
clue..it never occurred to me that it might simply be the battery
in the MTP AV.

Regarding the messed up icons in AMS - I"ve gotten used to it myself.
"Cost of doing business" or something like that.

[bkshepard]

MOTU has a Tech Note on the battery issue. I had this problem a couple of years ago, and replacing the battery in my MTP-AV was the fix.

[Patricio]

Strange problem, after the last MIDI drivers update from Motu all my mididevices are gone in Audiomidi setup, no connections at all.
I made some screenshots of my old system so i'm trying to connect them again see if that works. so becareful.

[Patricio]

Update,made the connections and updated to 7.2.2 restarted
looks like MIDI is working again..very funny but till sofar problem solved.