Quality/Reliability difference between ADAT and AES/EBU etc?

[mhschmieder]

I'm Martian so I have slightly more than 24 hours at my disposal...

As for 48 kHz vs. 96 kHz, it looks like these recording sessions may start as soon as Thanksgiving, so it's a moot point for this particular project.

I will record at 48 kHz vs. 44.1 kHz though, as I notice a distinct difference due to the aliasing that almost all 44.1k converters cause.

Hopefully in a couple of weeks, I'll have time to go through more lit and forum feedback, reviews, etc., to make a decision, but my inclination is to continue to trust RME as the most reliable company, and to recognize that this counts for more than small quality differences in the audio.

I wish Mytek made a different multi-channel unit that was cheaper, or that the 8-channel unit could be expanded to 10 or 12 channels or more via other digital connections, but this does not appear to be the case. So I'll probably look at expanding via Focusrite for now, and if FW800 becomes a bottleneck at 16 channels, more quickly addressing the PCIe question. But whatever I do to bump the track count up to 16 has to work in the future plan as well as the short-term. There lies the dilemma.

[monkey man]

... and that's why I suggested the MOTU ADAT-based "core" setup.

It goes without saying that I'm out of my depth here, Mark, but I'll continue to monitor your progress on the off chance I might have something to contribute.

Martian, eh? Figures. Dang!

[mhschmieder]

I've decided to go with the SSL converters, but wrote Warren Dent at Zen Pro Audio for advice on exactly which configuration makes sense, as well as about the whole ADAT vs. AES/EBU thing and whether for integration purposes I am better off with an RME PCIe card or the one from SSL.

The SSL converters are thought to be the most transparent except for the uber-expensive Prism converters. A lot of research bore fruit today, with the SSL stuff (it isn't really SSL historically, but they bought the technology from a German company), handily beating out the Lynx Aurora, and in some tests even seeming better than the eight-channel version of the Mytek (which is older than their two-channel units).

It carries up to 24 channels via MADI, and as I thought MADI was ADAT repackaged into different cabling and terminators, I'm confused how AES/EBU is even an option.

At any rate, having bought a Focusrite eight-channel ADAT expansion module tonight (as far as I know, the only such model available besides the one from B**er, as all others include redundant computer interfaces), I'm probably going to find the slightly inferior ADAT option more flexible for long-term equipment decisions. The superiority of AES/EBUY isn't likely to be as big of advantage in a smaller home/mobile studio, and MADI probably takes care of the ADAT cabling issues (which are minor compared to S/PDIF issues).

I was wondering if there are any two-channel AES/EBU PCIe interfaces for the main high-quality overdub channels and monitoring channels (Mytek AD96 in my case, and possibly Mytek DA96 or DA192 at some point). I couldn't find anything on-line by searching several well-known vendors, but didn't do a general Google search yet.

[monkey man]

Well, it sure sounds like progress Mark, even if it's in a foreign language.

Those SSL converters sound fabulous based on what you said. Ripper!

[Phil O]

At any rate, having bought a Focusrite eight-channel ADAT expansion module tonight (as far as I know, the only such model available besides the one from B**er, as all others include redundant computer interfaces), I'm probably going to find the slightly inferior ADAT option more flexible for long-term equipment decisions. The superiority of AES/EBUY isn't likely to be as big of advantage in a smaller home/mobile studio, and MADI probably takes care of the ADAT cabling issues (which are minor compared to S/PDIF issues).

Hi guys, I've been lurking this thread for a while as I have nothing significant to add. I am, however, interested in picking your brain, if I could.

I've been thinking about adding 8 channels of cheap mic pre. I know what I'd like, but simply can't afford it right now, so I'll probably be going with something from Presonus or Focusrite. I'm curious as to what you found out about ADAT vs AES/EBU (in a nut shell). You mention "slightly inferior." Could you expand on that? Also, I'd love to know what you think of the Focusrite unit when you get it set up.

Thanks,
Phil

[mhschmieder]

Phil,

My recollection (and I'll have to consult my printouts later for a more detailed answer) is that optical cables (other than Ethernet) tend to be real sensitive to angle and data loss, which error correction may or may not recover 100% (probably closer to 99.x%).

I'm too embarassed to put down what else I recall from those write-ups until I find them again later this weekend, as I am unable to provide a technical justification that makes sense.

I received a helpful reply from Warren at Zen Pro today that I haven't had time to fully take in yet. Although he uses SSL himself as his main system, he does seem to feel RME might be more reliable on the Mac at least, and more bang-for-buck as far as the interface portion is concerned.

He suggests the new Fireface, simply bypassing its FW interface when using a PCIe board via ADAT. It's certainly an option I had considered as it has AES/EBU that could be used for the two "good channels" each of output monitoring and typical stereo input overdubs (or the two main channels for layered in-the-home recording).

There were other suggestions related to SSL AlphaLink and RME MADI that I'll look at in more detail later. I also have to make sure I still have MIDI, and if all PCIe slots get taken up and none of them carry MIDI, that could be a PITA.

One thing to be wary of with some of the PCIe cards is that not all of them allow simultaneous access to the different digital protocols and connections.

[Phil O]

Yeah, no matter what protocol you use, it all comes back to PITA. Sounds like ADAT isn't all that bad if you are careful about cable runs, yes?

Thanks for the info!

Phil

[mhschmieder]

Here's something I hadn't thought about, that an RME rep brought up regarding AES/EBU vs. ADAT: "if you change between 44/48 and 96 a lot, you won't have to reconfigure connections"

[mhschmieder]

Well, after carefully reviewing all the SSL, Lynx, and RME data last night, I've concluded that the new RME Fireface UFX is my best bet going forward. It's just more flexible setup wise, and more direct overall, and also makes it easier to deal with separate "two good channels" approach to the main outs (via an AES/EBU based DA unit) and the main overdubs (similarly via an AES/EBU based AD unit).

Nevertheless, my final decision will come after my next sessions, when I see how the Focusrite ADAT-based expansion unit fares, whether FW800 is sufficient for 14+ tracks in terms of bandwidth and near-direct-monitoring latency, etc.

Being familiar (sort of ) with TotalMix is a boon, as I have heard the SSL AlphaLink stuff (as well as Lynx Aurora) are much harder to set up (in terms of installation, routing, cabling and monitoring) and not as flexible as the RME stuff. Also, RME reigns when it comes to quality Mac drivers that are 100% reliable. They're also great people (although I'm sure the SSL and Lynx folks are as well).