Fixing the room...

[Releaux]

Hi all - I need some newbie advice.

There's a chance that I might start doing some industrial video recording for a client. The vast majority of these videos would be training sessions or technical presentations. I'll be assembling the videos in Final Cut Express (or Pro if necessary). There are generally 1-2 presenters and a computer projection.

Most of the time, these events will be taking place in either a large conference room or a hotel meeting/ballroom. My initial thought after having done some location audio recording is that room noise and acoustics may become a problem.

Initially, I may not have the luxury of using a wireless lav mic for the presenter, especially if there are multiple presenters. I know I can probably use something like the Waves Xnoise plugs to get rid of air conditioner and computer fan noise in the room since they're constant, but is there anything that can be done about room echo after the fact?

Are there other issues that I should give careful consideration before discussing options with the client?

I would greatly appreciate any online resources you know of... I've been googling, but I'm not sure that my video vocabulary is adequate to even know what queries to make.

[willtompkins]

Check out www.filmsound.org

There should be some articles that may relate to what you're talking about. I don't quite understand what you mean about room echo. Do you want to get rid of it? My suggestion would be capturing the best audio you can, which would, in your case, probably work best with a lav mic. I use X-Noise all the time and it does a fairly good job depending on the source material, but it's easy to start adding artifacts and a "washy" sound with it. Multiband compressors (C4) have helped me out a few times on crappy indie films. There's a "low rumble and hiss reducer" setting that provides a good starting point. If you can't get a lav mic, do you already own X-Noise/Waves plugins? You'll end up spending more money on those than a decent lav mic if not. Hope this helps.

-Will

[Releaux]

Thanks for the info and link, Will. What I mean by "room echo" is that slapback echo that often happens in medium to large rooms. It's the room's natural "live sound" ambience which might be nice on instruments, but can make speech difficult to understand, especially for non-native English speakers.

I assumed that lav mics would be the best way to go, but wanted to know if anyone had any tricks to get around it if the budget isn't initially there to purchase the mics/mixer/etc.

(When I do voiceover work in my home studio, I put a big bolster pillow on the computer monitors directly behind the microphone and that takes care of the echo. That's not really an option at a workshop or board meeting. )

[willtompkins]

I know what you mean. On-set sound is an artform/craft in itself, something which I have only amateur experience with. If you're not using lavs, then I suppose you're booming it? Technique is probably your best focus then. Another idea may be using an expander/gate after the fact, in addition to some other plugins/signal processing.

-Will

[lightningad]

you need to make sure you have the right mics for the job....lavs are generally omnidirectional, and so will still pick up quite a lot of the room sound.
The best bet would be a couple of shotgun mics on overhead poles/booms aimed at the speakers - you tend to get a much more focussed cardiode mic pattern which is less susceptible to the reverberation of the room.
Assuming the speakers are going to be on a stage, then you could always place a couple of boundary pressure zone mics as backup - these tend to give a sound that is cleaner than you'd expect.
read some books on mic techniques for film/television as its a completely different field to music recording...Theres a very good chapter in Tomlinson Holmans "Sound for film and TV"

However, Your best overall option would be to hire an experienced sound recordist for each shoot - they tend to bring their own equipment and knowledge. If you try to shoot and sound record you will end up with a poor version of both. Ring around a few sound recordists, tell them what the job entails, ask them what problems they envisage (let them tell you - rather than you telling him his job!!) Find out what kit he brings with him - you'll soon find out if he has enough options to cover the possibilities.

[Releaux]

Thanks very much for the references and info leads!

My challenge is that this may (initially at least) be a bootstrap project - minimal budget and tech. More of a proof of concept thing than a full-blown product line, especially since it's an untested revenue stream for the client.

I want to give them the best results I can without investing so much that they (or I) can't walk away from it without losing our proverbial shirts. =-)

Off to do some reading...

[lightningad]

then i would say its all the more important to get a sound recordist involved. Explain the situation and he may offer to help out this once...to prove the case and then next time you both charge the client accordingly.

Doing things for free and all on your own, when you have no experience at at a given task will only ever prove that you aren't experienced and rarely ever proves anything to the client other than that. Your client won't lose out, but you certainly will.

[Jim]

Originally posted by lightningad:
you need to make sure you have the right mics for the job....lavs are generally omnidirectional, and so will still pick up quite a lot of the room sound.
The best bet would be a couple of shotgun mics on overhead poles/booms aimed at the speakers - you tend to get a much more focussed cardiode mic pattern which is less susceptible to the reverberation of the room.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this... not that it was technically incorrect, just that it's probably not the best solution for low budget corporate work. I've been working on films and video for 25 years, and I've dealt with all kinds of audio quality in post. You can't just set up a shotgun mic and forget about it. They have to be constantly aimed at the source (needing a qualified boom op). If the source is moving around, they'll go off axis pretty quickly. Besides, try telling your corporate (el cheapo) clients they need a guy in front of the room following the presenter at an additional $200-300/day. Ain't gonna' happen.

I totally recommend lav mics, on a wireless if the presenter is moving around, which they tend to do on long presentations. Yes, omnis pick up sound from every direction, but they also exhibit the inverse square law. The farther from the mic capsule, the weaker the signal, including fountains, traffic and room reverberation. I often get tapes that were recorded with a lav on one channel and a shotgun on the other, and in most cases, the lav channel wins. And this is from pro recordists.

Or, if you can get the presenter to stick to the lectern, just put a 57 on in and fuggetaboudit.

This isn't Citizen Kane 2. It's about getting the best compromise between quality, ease of execution and value. You don't need an expert sound guy to set up a lav, and you can get perfecly acceptable results on a shoestring.

Best of luck.

.

<small>[ April 11, 2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]</small>

[editdroid]

i agree about the lavs... it will be a better result. Guaranteed proximity. Consistent mic position. No worries about booming. Just make sure they are being worn correctly .. ie no clothing noise etc.

Regarding the Waves x-noise not sure if you've used them much but I find that the milage varies.. sometimes works great sometimes the bg seems to vary a bit too much and it's hard to get a good result...

anyhow good luck.

jason

[dpdan]

Just buy a reasonably priced Sennheiser or Shure wireless lavalier mic and make sure it is equipped with a cardioid mic, NOT omni.
You will be very happy with the results.
dpDan

<small>[ April 14, 2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: dpdan ]</small>