828mk3 input problem?

[phaser74]

Hi all,

Well I'm in the middle of setting up my DAW and seem to be having a problem with the mk3 and DP 7.21. Anyway, I have a hardware synthesizer plugged into analog inputs 1 and 2 on the mk3. When I hit a note on the synth, the appropriate led meters light up on the mk3. In other words, the front panel of the mk3 is reading that its receiving a signal at analog 1 and 2. So good so far. But when I open up the meter bridge in DP, the input meters show the audio signal inputting at analog 3 and 4 of the mk3 instead of at analog 1 and 2. In other words, I would expect to see the input signal arriving at analog 1 and 2, but it's reading at 3 and 4. So, I unplugged my synth and re-plugged it into analog 3-4. I open up the meter bridge and see the signal reading at analog 5-6.

I've been trying to make sense of this, but no luck so far. It normally wouldn't be a big concern to me, but I think it may be linked to a problem I'm having when recording. When I record-enable an audio track, I'm hearing a slap-back type echo applied to the incoming sound. When I disengage the record button, the echo goes away. I'm basically unable to record until I fix this issue. Well, any feedback or help would be appreciated.

Thanks ~phaser

[NazRat]

As far as the echo goes, it sounds like you need to change your Input Monitor Mode in DP to 'direct thru hardware'. The other problem is a little more mysterious. Check the input names in MOTU Hardware Setup to make sure they correspond to the physical inputs.

[SmilesLots]

I'm not sure if this is universally accurate, but in both my 828mk2 and 828mk3, the two mic/instrument inputs are treated by my recording software as "analog 1 & 2," thus the 828mk3 analog 1 & 2 show up as inputs 3 & 4. This has been normal on the 828mk2 for me for several years, and I have just lived with it. Maybe someone else knows if it is an actual problem and if there are settings that need to be changed. I use several different recording programs, including STP, SparkME, DP7, DSP Quatro and Audio Recorder.

[NazRat]

I'm not sure if this is universally accurate, but in both my 828mk2 and 828mk3, the two mic/instrument inputs are treated by my recording software as "analog 1 & 2," thus the 828mk3 analog 1 & 2 show up as inputs 3 & 4. This has been normal on the 828mk2 for me for several years, and I have just lived with it. Maybe someone else knows if it is an actual problem and if there are settings that need to be changed. I use several different recording programs, including STP, SparkME, DP7, DSP Quatro and Audio Recorder.

That may be true for other programs that just list the inputs/outputs sequencially ala STP, Logic, DSP Quatro. This shouldn't be the case in DP. Check the names in MOTU Audio Setup. Look at your bundles also.

[phaser74]

As far as the echo goes, it sounds like you need to change your Input Monitor Mode in DP to 'direct thru hardware'.

Okay, I did this and the echo went away. Many thanks NazRat.

So afterward, I recorded some audio from my synth and everything went smooth. I'm new to DP 7 (have been using 4.61 for years) and so I was familiarizing myself with the meter bridge and other monitoring features when I noticed another problem.

When I record enable an audio track now, the volume goes way way up! In other words, I'm getting the input signal where I want it for recording purposes and at a comfortable listening volume via the input fader. Just the basic normal protocol. But when I'm ready to record, I hit the record button, and the audio volume increases significantly. I can't just simply turn down the volume on my synth as the input signal would be too weak to record properly. Did I accidentally change some setting while touring DP 7. I went back and checked all studio and hardware settings, etc., and nothing has changed except for the increase in volume.

Anybody know whats up? Thanks ~phaser.

btw,

I'm not sure if this is universally accurate, but in both my 828mk2 and 828mk3, the two mic/instrument inputs are treated by my recording software as "analog 1 & 2," thus the 828mk3 analog 1 & 2 show up as inputs 3 & 4. This has been normal on the 828mk2 for me for several years, and I have just lived with it. Maybe someone else knows if it is an actual problem and if there are settings that need to be changed.

I hope this issue is just a lack of foresight by motu programmers to have the inputs correspond with each other corretly, as evinced by the following info. I hope it's nothing more than having to be aware that inputs 5-6 within DP are really 3-4 on the 828. Annoying I think though, and I hope its not some bigger issue.

Well, in my old setup, I didn't have to deal with this issue? DP 4.61 recognized the mic inputs 1-2 from my Presonus firebox as mic inputs 1-2. My synth was plugged into analog inputs 3-4 on my audio interface, and I viewed the signal from within DP as inputs 3-4. The way it should be! I think Presonus was smart though by labeling the mic inputs as 1-2 and not having an analog 1-2, but rather going directly to analog 3-4. Can we just re-name the signal inputs within DP. I can't seem to find out how to do that.

[NazRat]

When I record enable an audio track now, the volume goes way way up! In other words, I'm getting the input signal where I want it for recording purposes and at a comfortable listening volume via the input fader. Just the basic normal protocol. But when I'm ready to record, I hit the record button, and the audio volume increases significantly. I can't just simply turn down the volume on my synth as the input signal would be too weak to record properly. Did I accidentally change some setting while touring DP 7. I went back and checked all studio and hardware settings, etc., and nothing has changed except for the increase in volume.

I'm not quite sure, but I believe DP used to mute the CueMix busses, inputs, etc. when DP was loaded and all the audio routing was handled in DP automatically. What I've found now is that the 'through hardware' monitoring in DP is being reinforced by the 828mk3 mix busses. So if you have a synth attached to say analog 1-2 and you have analog 1-2 active on any of the mix busses, you're getting a combination of the two signals on output. Try muting the input channels in CueMix FX or setting the mix bus outputs to none.

I can see why this might have changed with the FX additions to the interface. My memory may be faulty, but with the older interfaces, I think this was handled automatically. Hope this made some sense.

[phaser74]

So if you have a synth attached to say analog 1-2 and you have analog 1-2 active on any of the mix busses, you're getting a combination of the two signals on output.

NazRat... I think you're right about getting a combination of the two signals. I opened up the mixing board in DP and started to focus on the audio track to which I was recording to. I found out that if I mute the track while recording on it, the volume problem is no longer. Its as though the audio track itself has an independent buss to the the main output and that the buss engages when the audio track is record-enabled.

So, muting the track bypasses the problem, but I don't think I have eliminated it. I don't want to have to mute audio tracks everytime I record a new pass. I would suspect I still have something set up wrong in either CueMix or DP itself. In my old setup, I didn't need to mute the track to which I was recording, so I know I just don't have something set up right

Try muting the input channels in CueMix FX or setting the mix bus outputs to none.

I'm not sure how to set the mix bus outputs to none or if what was mentioned above will even solve my problem. Can anyone point out what I'm failing to see.

Thanks again ~phaser

[phaser74]

OKAY I think this problem is solved In DP under Studio, you will find Audio Patch Thru. Well, it was set to Auto which is what I think the manual suggested in an early chapter. Anyway, I switched it to Input Only and there is no more extra volume. I can switch it to Off as well. By doing the aforementioned, I think I'm basically eliminating a duplicate buss of the analog inputs I was using. That's my logic anyway. Just trial and error.

Thanks NazRat for the pointers. They definitely helped me gain some momentum.

So anyway, I think I FINALLY have my DAW ready to go. Damn it's been a long process. Next thing to do is load up Projects from DP 4.61 to DP 7.21. I've heard this has gone very smooth for most!

~phaser

[NazRat]

Setting Audio Patch Thru to off or muting the track in DP is not the best solution. This will cause problems with punches. Open CueMix FX and click on the Mixes tab. If you want to set the output of the mix buss to none, the rightmost fader has a dropdown box where you can select None. Otherwise either pull down the faders on the channel(s) you are recording or press the mute button (in CueMix FX) for the channels you are recording. I know this is counter intuitive. Now you will only be able to hear your synth if you either record arm the track in DP or use the input monitor button (under the record button) in DP.

This is only while DP is running. Once you quit DP, you'll have to put the faders up, unmute or reset the output on the bus to the mains or whatever to hear your synth again.

Distilled - when DP is running you don't want any input routings in CueMix FX active that use the same outputs as DP tracks or mains. When DP is not running use CueMix FX.

[phaser74]

"Setting Audio Patch Thru to off or muting the track in DP is not the best solution. "

Okay, so I set Audio Patch Thru back to Auto. I then pulled the faders down to negative infinity on the audio tracks I was recording to and everything worked. I can also still hear my inputs even when the tracks aren't record enabled. So I'm going to stick with this setup for now, but I'm still uncertain as to why I have to pull down the faders all the way. There has to be a some other solution.

Anyway NazRat, your solution worked and I'm just happy that I have a solution to this problem that I can live with.

Just don't see why this has to be so complicated. It seems as though things would have been a whole lot easier if I purchased an interface without any input FX. Can't even seem to use them anyway.

I guess I'm just not up to par with all the mixing options and have become accustomed to using my really basic presonus firebox.

I'll post some more if any more problems arise or if I come up with a different solution.

~phaser

[SmilesLots]

Thanks to NazRat and everyone else who has contributed to this topic. I have learned a lot from this topic, especially about problems I did not even know I had, and more importantly how to fix them.

I use DP for MIDI AND audio recording. Since most of my audio recording is simple stereo, I usually use SparkME for its simplicity. It does not have the capability to see the inputs in the way that DP7 does, and it runs under Rosetta, which is another whole set of problems. So time to learn a new program it seems.

[NazRat]

Just don't see why this has to be so complicated. It seems as though things would have been a whole lot easier if I purchased an interface without any input FX. Can't even seem to use them anyway.

I guess I'm just not up to par with all the mixing options and have become accustomed to using my really basic presonus firebox.

I'll post some more if any more problems arise or if I come up with a different solution.

~phaser

Any device that can also be used as a standalone mixer would function similarly if you have a mix active in the device. The effects work fine. On the input tab any EQ and Comp/Limit you set is applied to the incoming signal and recorded. If your having issues with reverb, you need to familiarize yourself with CueMix FX. It really works well once you get it. If you'll be using outboard effects and/or devices via ADAT or S/PDIF, you need to get up to speed with Mix Buses. The 828mk3 is an amazing piece of work.