Stay with MOTU 896 or Upgrade to 896 Mk III?

mweiss · Post by **mweiss** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:05 am

Good morning,

My original 896 is in for repair. MOTU is giving me the option to upgrade to a 896 Mk III.

Has anyone got the Mk III and can you tell me how you like it, from a sonic perspective, especially if you have used the 896 original for many years? I'm particularly interested in knowing if the preamps are as quiet as those on the original 896. I haven't been able to get any response on this question in any pro sound forums to date. I have a couple of days to decide, but am coming up dry in all Google searches on the topic.

I've been very happy with my 896 for the better part of the decade that I've owned it, but I want to make sure I'm not giving up anything if I go with the Mk III.

The only difference I see is no LINE level inputs.. they seem to have put a 20dB attenuator in place of that. I sometimes record pyrotech (explosions) with the mics going straight into the LINE level inputs, as it results in a slightly better s/n ratio than using the inputs in MIC mode and turning the input gains all the way down.

They've added 176 and 192k sample rates (of dubious value, due to technical issues of jitter being a more serious problem at those ultra high rates, according to a few knowledgeable audiophiles) and the fact that for me, 96k has proved overkill anyway.

However, I am concerned that my 896, due to its age, may be not as reliable as a new unit. On mine, the word clock fails to lock after warmed up, and it also drops off the IEEE-1394 bus after a while, resulting in the dreaded "unplugged" error. After such an event, the 896 would not display it's lamp test at power up, not even standalone. Also the clock rate would be flashing and never lock. MOTU has graciously shipped me a loaner of the same vintage, but alas, it developed the same problem after it warmed up, so I'm wondering if I might be better off with a Mk III upgrade. Then they shipped me two more units, the first of which failed after several hours recording.. I'm now testing the 3rd unit in preparation for a symphony concert recording later this evening.

How do these two units compare? How are the mic pre's on the Mk III compared to the original 896? Any issues I should know about besides? I have a couple of days to decide. Thanks in advance for informed opinions!

I have a concern about the following feature:

"When recording from the mic/guitar inputs, the 896mk3’s signal overload protection gives you an extra 12 dB of headroom above zero with no clipping or harsh artifacts."

I wonder if the noise floor is compromised by building in this extra headroom at the top? For me, noise floor must be absolutely low, as I do a lot of ultra-wide dynamic range recordings (pyrotechnics in which >85dB dynamic range is the norm). My 896 was just adequately quiet enough for this last fireworks sound recording that I did with Zambelli Fireworks in July, where we were up close to the launchers and mortars and used attenuator pads on our studio condenser mics to anticipate the 140dB peak SPLs against an ambient noise level of about 35-40dB out on an airport taxiway that was shut down for the event.
I would hate to give up that quiet noise floor, if the Mk III compromises for top end headroom. My 896 measures about 114dB s/n in loopback in RightMark Audio Analyzer, and on the spectragraph, most of the noise floor is down around -136dB, with a few spikes pushing north, mostly outside the audible range.

I'm also concerned about some reported problems with Windows XP and the MOTU. All of my machines are running SP service pack 2. Is this going to be a problem with the Mk III?

Thanks in advance for your help!

fullertime · Post by **fullertime** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:53 am

What are they charging you $$ for the upgrade?

mweiss · Post by **mweiss** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:09 am

There was no mention of cost. Anyway, I'm only concerned with whether there are any compromises to the audio preamps/DACs, compared with the original 896.. there are also some posts about problems with Win XP on the Mk III, so I'm concerned that I might lose reliability. It would be devastating to my business reputation if I were to lose a concert because the unit lost connection with the PC during a recording.

jpleong · Post by **jpleong** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:33 am

I am currently using my 896mk3 on two different laptops running XP SP3. One is a Sony Vaio and the other an HP nx workstation. They both work perfectly with the 896mk3 and current firmware/drivers. One key to this, I'm sure, is that they both use TI firewire chips as their controller.

How soon do you need to make a decision? I have some classical clips I recorded with my 896mk3 I can send you if you'd like to actually hear it in action...

JP

mweiss · Post by **mweiss** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:12 pm

The laptop I am using is a Sony GRX560 that I've run my original 896 with since 2004 or so.. it is running it's OEM Win XP Home, no service packs. I hope that's not a problem, because I don't know if it can be upgraded to SP3 at all.

Although I appreciate the offer of a sample recording, it would be comparing apples and oranges, since different mics, different concert hall, and in general, music doesn't have that much dynamic range.
My 896 is really pushed to the limit when I record pyrotechnic events, near-field, where the ambient sound is 35dB and the explosions at the mic locations near the launchers might be over 140dB. I actually feed my large diaphragm studio condensers into the 896 with the inputs set to LINE level and phantom power ON. That achieves the best s/n ratio under these situations.

What would be really meaningful to me is if you could run that freeware RightMark Audio Analyzer on your Mk III and post the results.. I did find a couple of tests on the net:

http://www.quatron.com.pl/motu/Comparis ... 92_khz.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://www.quatron.com.pl/motu/motu_896 ... 92_khz.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here is a test from the original 896 that I found cached by Google:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It does seem that the Mk III has somewhat more dynamic range. So I guess we're good.. now if it can run just like the original 896 on my laptop and on my XP SP2 audio workstation with Sonar 7, I should be good to go.

jpleong · Post by **jpleong** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:59 pm

Hah! Seems like you answered your own questions...

Best of luck to you!

JP

mweiss · Post by **mweiss** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:01 am

All that remains is whether the Mk III works on my Win XP Home with no service packs and also on my workstation with SP2. I'm also hoping Sonar 7 won't have any problems.. it shouldn't, since it uses ASIO, and the Mk III should appear as an ASIO device.
I just stumbled across those RightMark results while writing the previous post, actually..

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