working at A 432 rather than 440

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:44 pm

I said "someone" might. This time it was you. Good "gotcha."

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:54 pm

OK I'll admit when you wear the Santa suit I do lurk in the shadows... waiting.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Well come December, I'll be sporting it again.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:10 pm

I'll be here ... waiting

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:16 am

Like that'll stop me from wearing the Santa suit in my avatar.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:22 am

I look forward to that but not as much as I do Easter. Now THAT is special and, well, who dares argue with the Easter Bunny? What? And miss out on all that chocolate?

BTW I do believe 443 is illegal in NY, CA, and TN.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:52 am

Oy! Don't get me started! I went to this link and played the Silent Night examples. To me, 440 does make me feel a bit uneasy, but only because I listened to 432 first. The author sets you up by the order in which he presents his samples. Your ear becomes accustomed to 432 then wham he hits you with 440 and it sounds sharp (umm, because it is). If you wait a few seconds and listen to the samples in reverse order, I think you'll find that it's the 432 that jars your bones. And I could write a book about the errors this author and others make about numerology.

Speaking of bones...I'm very open to the idea that maybe, just maybe there might be some unknown effect that certain crystals or minerals have on our health, but the key word here is unknown. The proponents of these miracle cures pretend to have some knowledge that the rest of us poor saps don't. How is it they come up with this stuff when people who actually study medical science can't? Where did they get the knowledge about the relationship between quarts and human physiology? Huh?

Are there some things that seem to work that we don't yet understand the mechanisms at play? Sure. I honestly believe that some wonderful bio-chemistry has been discovered by accident (take for example using yeast as a leavening agent) and there are valid cures from ancient times, but as far as crystals and bones is concerned, there's simply no evidence to support this. And, there are so many other examples of stuff that not only has no scientific basis, but simply doesn't work. Like I said, don't get me started.

Phil

Robb Scott · Post by **Robb Scott** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:19 pm

Just to point out: The OP stated that he "was asked" to record at 332. He may not necessarily buy the claims made on that site (which are, of course, complete crap), but might figure Hey, if that's what the client wants, that's what I'll do. Can't blame 'im for that, sez I...

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:16 pm

I here ya. I have a friend who had to do a job in Logic because a client could hear the difference in tempo (BPM) to three decimal places and DP only goes to two decimal points: i.e. 120.246 bpm versus 120.25 bpm.

You can't make this stuff up.

n2mpujack · Post by **n2mpujack** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:28 pm

Robb Scott wrote:Just to point out: The OP stated that he "was asked" to record at 332. He may not necessarily buy the claims made on that site (which are, of course, complete crap), but might figure Hey, if that's what the client wants, that's what I'll do. Can't blame 'im for that, sez I...

Go to the site listed in the OP's profile or call up his other site on Google (it's rayman something or other) and you'll see just what he's in to. I've gotten a PM or two from him that really makes me wonder about him. Let's put it this way - the phrase 'junk science' comes to mind with him.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:04 am

n2mpujack wrote:
Robb Scott wrote:Just to point out: The OP stated that he "was asked" to record at 332. He may not necessarily buy the claims made on that site (which are, of course, complete crap), but might figure Hey, if that's what the client wants, that's what I'll do. Can't blame 'im for that, sez I...
Go to the site listed in the OP's profile or call up his other site on Google (it's rayman something or other) and you'll see just what he's in to. I've gotten a PM or two from him that really makes me wonder about him. Let's put it this way - the phrase 'junk science' comes to mind with him.

Oh good grief. Let's not stop with "junk science." Let's just call it fakery. On the site there are recordings of Silent Night with all the finesse of a 1910 barroom mechanical piano. The one recorded at 432 is supposed to put you at peace, and for reasons the author of the article slanders physics, mathematics, biology, and philosophy in hopes that the reader might not have been paying attention in any of those classes. Pardon me for not being my normal tolerant self, but tolerance goes out the window when people malign the truth that way.

If you want to write relaxing music, write music that makes you relax. Merely lowering the pitch doesn't do that. In fact, it makes most of us musicians tense up! If you want examples of phi in music, look for it in formal structures (it "feels right") or in the the structure of the harmonic series. Pitch is relative, and even people who have absolute pitch have to learn it to begin with. They don't come out of the womb with 440 or 432 or any other particular pitch already burned into their minds like some kind of ROM. Consequently, what sounds relaxing will be the pitch one learns at an early age. It has nothing to do with Phi.

Such things as Phi (also known as the Fibonacci Series of 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21…), resonance, DNA, and at least some of the others cited in the article each have their places in what we do, but not as a justification for a lower pitch. That's baloney, and you can quote me on it. Sorry; junk science bothers me in a big way.

Shooshie

amplidood · Post by **amplidood** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:58 am

Something that was done *all the time* back in tape recording/mastering days was similar to this concept. They would slow playback down just a bit to "fatten" up the sound. It nearly always worked. There certainly may be something to the slightly slower cycles being more pleasing to the ear, but I don't think it's as dramatic as that site would have you believe. Just like I don't believe the difference between 44.1 and 48k sampling rates is noticable by any human being on the planet.

Guitar Gaz · Post by **Guitar Gaz** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:53 am

Shooshie wrote: That's baloney, and you can quote me on it. Sorry; junk science bothers me in a big way.

Shooshie

Shooshie is the voice of reason as usual !

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:33 am

amplidood wrote:Something that was done *all the time* back in tape recording/mastering days was similar to this concept. They would slow playback down just a bit to "fatten" up the sound. It nearly always worked. There certainly may be something to the slightly slower cycles being more pleasing to the ear, but I don't think it's as dramatic as that site would have you believe. Just like I don't believe the difference between 44.1 and 48k sampling rates is noticable by any human being on the planet.

True. People record at 48k, use special speaker cables, rub chicken bones on their hard drives, hundreds of things that no one can hear, but they are convinced it sounds better. Everyone can hear the difference between the 432 and 440 but can’t agree whether it sounds better or not.

bb

n2mpujack · Post by **n2mpujack** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:03 pm

Shooshie wrote:
n2mpujack wrote:
Robb Scott wrote:Just to point out: The OP stated that he "was asked" to record at 332. He may not necessarily buy the claims made on that site (which are, of course, complete crap), but might figure Hey, if that's what the client wants, that's what I'll do. Can't blame 'im for that, sez I...
Go to the site listed in the OP's profile or call up his other site on Google (it's rayman something or other) and you'll see just what he's in to. I've gotten a PM or two from him that really makes me wonder about him. Let's put it this way - the phrase 'junk science' comes to mind with him.
Oh good grief. Let's not stop with "junk science." Let's just call it fakery. On the site there are recordings of Silent Night with all the finesse of a 1910 barroom mechanical piano. The one recorded at 432 is supposed to put you at peace, and for reasons the author of the article slanders physics, mathematics, biology, and philosophy in hopes that the reader might not have been paying attention in any of those classes. Pardon me for not being my normal tolerant self, but tolerance goes out the window when people malign the truth that way.

If you want to write relaxing music, write music that makes you relax. Merely lowering the pitch doesn't do that. In fact, it makes most of us musicians tense up! If you want examples of phi in music, look for it in formal structures (it "feels right") or in the the structure of the harmonic series. Pitch is relative, and even people who have absolute pitch have to learn it to begin with. They don't come out of the womb with 440 or 432 or any other particular pitch already burned into their minds like some kind of ROM. Consequently, what sounds relaxing will be the pitch one learns at an early age. It has nothing to do with Phi.

Such things as Phi (also known as the Fibonacci Series of 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21…), resonance, DNA, and at least some of the others cited in the article each have their places in what we do, but not as a justification for a lower pitch. That's baloney, and you can quote me on it. Sorry; junk science bothers me in a big way.

Shooshie

I only used the phrase 'junk science' because I couldn't say what I really wanted to call it - and what I have to say on the op's sputum ain't nice.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees through the flaws in rayman's thought processes. The thing I worry about is that there are people out there who buy into this kind of crud without casting a critical eye, mind and ear to things.

This thought of pitching things down takes me back to something I heard about Tony Iommi's guitar work that due to the accident he had on the last day of his job, the finger tip replacement he's using and the subsequent tuning down to make his guitar strings have less tension on them that this is responsible for the darker, more powerful tone he had in Black Sabbath. And that further if he hadn't had his misfortune and had kept to a regular tuning it just wouldn't sound the same. Truth, fiction or rumour?

MOTUnation.com