Computer shopping: New 4-core vs Old 8-core?

[James Steele]

Saw the same ad... The cost to put in 16GB RAM is a factor. I don't know how much it would cyst offhand to buy that additional RAM, but it might be worth it. I'm going to stay on the sidelines for a while longer with my Mac Pro 1,1.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

So now you guys have me thinking, is a 12 core machine a total waste since (if I am reading these posts correctly) the 12 cores will basically not be used for years to come, if ever?

If that's the case, then a used 8 core makes a lot more sense.

[James Steele]

I don't think it's a waste. It's just expensive. I saw the chart on Apple's site where it showed the 12-core as 1.3x faster that the 8-core Nehalem. So my thinking is in a few months we'll be seeing $2600 used 8-core Nehalems while the 12-cores are $5k. The price to performance ratio is outta whack here.

[BobK]

So now you guys have me thinking, is a 12 core machine a total waste since (if I am reading these posts correctly) the 12 cores will basically not be used for years to come, if ever?

If that's the case, then a used 8 core makes a lot more sense.

I'm not sure what to think anymore, Mike!

MOTU makes no bones about it: they say very clearly that DP takes 'full advantage' of Snow Leopard's multi-threading and multi-processor technologies. They don't use the word 'cores', but that statement does imply that DP will use all the available computing resources.

For what it's worth, info at Mac Performance Guide said that some apps can only use a certain number of cores, and only a very few really well-written apps can maximize them all. Without someone doing some serious testing with DP on different Mac Pros, there's no way to really know.

I agree with James, the price-performance ratio seems out of whack, but we won't really know till people test 'em out. Maybe those 12 core babies are just monstrously powerful. It seems harder than ever to interpret computer specs.

[Frodo]

$3k for a 10-month old 2009 Nehalem 8-core, 2.26 GHz, with 1 TB hard drive, 16 GB RAM, and 2+ years left of Apple Care.

I've never plunked down that much $ for a computer at one time. But when I think if it, my Dual 2.0 G5 was about $2,100 new plus tax, and I added an AirPort card and RAM, bringing the total to about $2,600. And I got 6 years use out of it.

Thoughts?

I don't think $3k is a steal, but it seems reasonable.

6 years out of a $2600 investment? By "today's" standards it is quite reasonable considering how much faster the new machine is compared to the old one. If it has 16G, then perhaps there's one floating around with 8G which could bring that $3k price down a bit. You can get RAM for that machine for about $30-40 per GB these days, fwiw.

Also, keep an eye out at macconnection. They often have some interesting offers. Sometimes the prices are a bit lower on warehouse stock, or they'll throw in a rebate or a free printer or some other bundle of perks. Now that there's a new machine on the block, you might be able to jump in on a great deal on a 2009 model, but diversify your searches for the best prices. Everyone's going to want to move old stock over the next few weeks.

Shop smart.

Save money.

Make music.

[BobK]

I picked up that 2009 8-core Nehalem 2.26, for a final price of $2,700.

The owner claimed that as she prepped the computer this morning, she discovered she hadn't ever enrolled in Apple Care, so she offered to sign up right then, or deduct $250 from the sale price. I chose the money. I still have 56 days of the original warranty, during which I can still get the extended warranty.

Incidentally, Amazon.com sells the Mac Pro Apple Care plan for $199 - Apple charges $249.

As they were boxing the computer, her boyfriend made an offhand remark about how Apple is really simplifying their packaging on refurbs, or something like that. That was a shock.

I said 'So it's a refurb?' Yes. 'You didn't disclose that in the ad; you said it cost $4,100 new.'

She said 'Actually, the ad said that $4,100 is what you'd have to pay for it new; I didn't say that's what I paid for it.'

She was right. In fact, in the back of my mind I had noticed that language, but I'd let it slide. I'd let my usual vigilance slip. Caveat emptor, muthaf#!ka!

I asked 'what did you pay for it?', and she said $3,600. She said she understood if this was not cool with me, and offered to give me my money back so I could go home and reconsider, or nix the deal entirely. But I decided I didn't want to do that. I asked for a token $50 off. She and her boyfriend pondered that, and she reconsidered renting the machine to a friend while she was out of the country instead of selling it to me. Eventually she agreed, bringing the final price to $2,700.

(By the way, she'd first listed it on CL for $3,500, reducing it to $3,250 a day or so later.)

Now, for a reality check: I spent a total of $2,600 on my G5, including purchasing it new with an educational discount, and then adding a little RAM over the next three years. In that context, the Nehalem is a good deal, even if I got a used refurb instead of just a used machine.

I'm unwinding from the stress of shopping and negotiating, and looking forward to starting the migration tomorrow.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If you have an Amex card, use that to by Applecare and you'll get an extra year for free! I've checked with Amex several times and they confirm that is correct. Apple will tell you no, but the contract is with Amex at that point, not Apple and you can re-buy the Applecare at the end of the 4 years - for another 4 years!

[bongo_x]

Nothing wrong with a refurb, I don’t know that that even means anything when you’re buying it from Apple. I think any open box, anything, is a refurb.

bb

[mhschmieder]

Bob, I think that might have been one of the two ads I saw the other day, but probably not the one I mentioned here as I think I thought the asking price was too high. Glad it all worked out for you, in spite of the stress, and personally I consider refurbs to be more reliable than new gear as it's likely been tested more thoroughly. The exception might be monitors and things that have monitors built-in.

[BobK]

Bob, I think that might have been one of the two ads I saw the other day, but probably not the one I mentioned here as I think I thought the asking price was too high.

Yeah, I thought so too at $3,500. Today I learned that's only $100 less than what she paid for it (or what she said she paid for it).

Then when I saw it lowered to $3,250 or $3,200 after only a day or two, I figured it was worth making an offer.

Glad it all worked out for you, in spite of the stress, and personally I consider refurbs to be more reliable than new gear as it's likely been tested more thoroughly. The exception might be monitors and things that have monitors built-in.

Thanks! That would be cool if refurbs get more attention.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Be interested if you can move the G5 or if you keep it as a farm or something. I'll be in the same boat - hopefully sooner rather than later.

[James Steele]

Good deal when you consider the extra RAM. Macs that are priced high like that will eventually come down. I love the "it would cost you" priced people quote in their ads. They do the mar thing and buy 3rd party RAM and buy drives online, but when it comes time to sell, they add it up like its build to-order through Apple. Good deal you got there.

[BobK]

Good deal when you consider the extra RAM. Macs that are priced high like that will eventually come down. I love the "it would cost you" priced people quote in their ads. They do the mar thing and buy 3rd party RAM and buy drives online, but when it comes time to sell, they add it up like its build to-order through Apple. Good deal you got there.

Yeah, it did turn out to be a good deal. I still think she bought it configured as-is, as opposed to upgrading it herself, but I'll probably never know for sure.

It'll be like night and day compared to the G5 - I can't wait to get everything moved over.

I'm gonna start by installing SL on a 320 GB drive I have sitting around and make that the system drive. Seems like a waste to use the 1 TB drive for apps.

[James Steele]

When you see all those typos and partial words it means I'm using the darned iPad. Portait mode a bit to large to use thumbs comfortably. Landscape mode, just a bit too small to touch type on. Really not a good device for text input IMHO.

[BobK]

Be interested if you can move the G5 or if you keep it as a farm or something. I'll be in the same boat - hopefully sooner rather than later.

Not sure if I'll need it as a farm, at least not in the near future. If I did need a farm machine, I could theoretically use my 2006 Mac Book Pro, or maybe put the money I got from selling the G5 towards a Mac Mini. The Mini can't take more RAM than the G5 - they both max out at 8 GB - but according to everymac.com, its Geekbench score is double that of the G5, which suggests it's got double the computing power. Plus, it's tiny, quiet, and uses very little electricity. The G5 is noisy, and its power consumption spec is about DOUBLE that of my new 8-core! We'll see.