stupid workflow things that I haven't figured out

[Don T]

Hello,
I think MIDI controller assignments are VI specific, as in some are written to work and others are not. The Assign MIDI controller function used to be in the mini menu of the mixing board. You do exactly as you say, click on the function then click on the knob you want to control and a red box blinks around it until you move the controller you want to use. Then the box turns green and the controller works. Sometimes not so well, like when you use a step encoder knob to control a pan and it just flickers back and forth. That being said, if the parameter is something written to work you can also automate it by enabling the "A" automation button. Also you can set up a "console" to have one MIDI controller linked to another. Admittedly MIDI is not my strong suit and I have not tested any of this since DP 4.6.

[benmrx]

Benmrx, as previously stated, I understand you can do this, but this ONLY works if you know the CC# of the parameter you are trying to automate. For example, if I want to automate an LFO in Stylus, and want to assign that LFO knob to an external MIDI controller knob like one on my Kore2 hardware controller, how would I do this? There's no way to find the given CC# of the LFO knob in stylus, is there? Again, in Logic and many other sequencers, this is as simple as right-clicking, "Assign MIDI controller".

True... but ya know, not all plugins or VI's even use MIDI as the source to control their parameters. Logic doesn't have many advantages, but one VERY nice feature in Logic is in the "environment" you can assign a MIDI Monitor Object and basically decode any plugin. I've actually opened Logic just to use this feature. Some use "fader data"... or at least that what Logic calls it, and then you use a "transform object" to transform MIDI CC's into Fader Data.

When I first got Plogue Bidule I noticed it also has a MIDI Monitor object (or bidule), but it doesn't really work as well, because it only works when your MIDI source, or object has a dedicated MIDI output, where in Logic you just wire it to the actual channel strip output. It's really quite handy to see what's going on.

[benmrx]

Hello,
I think MIDI controller assignments are VI specific, as in some are written to work and others are not. The Assign MIDI controller function used to be in the mini menu of the mixing board. You do exactly as you say, click on the function then click on the knob you want to control and a red box blinks around it until you move the controller you want to use. Then the box turns green and the controller works. Sometimes not so well, like when you use a step encoder knob to control a pan and it just flickers back and forth. That being said, if the parameter is something written to work you can also automate it by enabling the "A" automation button. Also you can set up a "console" to have one MIDI controller linked to another. Admittedly MIDI is not my strong suit and I have not tested any of this since DP 4.6.

Unfortunately this feature (assign MIDI controller) only works in DPs mixer.. and it actually doesn't seem to work for "mutes"... maybe it works for "MAS" plugins, but I know it doesn't work for AU plugins. Can't say if it was different in v4.6 or not, but at least in v7, this is how it is.

[benmrx]

3. When I want to draw volume automation in an audio track in the "Sequence" window, I hit the dropdown menu next to the track name, click on volume, and use the pencil tool. If the fader of that audio track is currently sitting at -6db, for example, and I just want to draw some automation in but keep the fader at -6db for the rest of the song, how do I easily and efficiently do this? Presently, I've been clicking someone on the audio track, and a line has appeared at somewhere other than -6db. Also, does this type of volume automation relate to automating a fader? Like, could I automate the fader of a track, and see that automation line somehow?

It would be a delicate matter if DP automatically assumed that -6dB was what everyone wanted by default.

I see what you're getting at Erik. I know in PT, where ever you have your volume slider for a particular channel at, PT puts a single dot of automation at that point at the very beginning of your project, and it updates that one, single point every time you move the fader. This means that when you go in to write some automation, there's already a dot where you last left your fader. Pretty handy little feature IMO.... however I was just thinking of a way you could get a somewhat similar action in DP.

Note: I haven't tried this, so I have no idea how well it might actually work.

After you've got your static mix just the way you like it with no automation, go into the mixer mini-menu and uncheck everything except the fader option maybe leave the pan option checked. Now take a piece of "snapshot automation". From how I read it in the manual, this should put a piece of automation data on ONLY the volume (and pan if you left it checked) for any tracks you have showing/visible in the mixer window. Like I said, I haven't tried it, but the manual is leading me to believe this would work.

[erikjamesmusic]

Guys, just so there's no confusion, this video is what I'm talking about. It's a mediocre tutorial of how to assign a MIDI controller in logic, but imagine you can see him turning a real knob corresponding to the parameter within the VI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10rpCubv5gU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kubi]

DP cannot assign external MIDI controllers to host automation data, at least I haven't found a way. (Nor have I found someone who knew how to do it once they understood the question correctly....) One of the very small handful of shortcomings DP still has, in my opinion. Would be a nice addition fer sure...

Maybe in DP7.21?

[GlennO]

For example, if I want to automate an LFO in Stylus, and want to assign that LFO knob to an external MIDI controller knob like one on my Kore2 hardware controller, how would I do this?

As others have stated, I don't believe you can attach a MIDI controller to automated plugin parameters in DP. You probably already know this, but if you simply want to control a Stylus parameter with a hardware knob, just MIDI learn it: select "Learn Control" from the Stylus MIDI Learn menu, twiddle the Stylus knob and twiddle the hardware knob. See the "MIDI Learn" video tutorial at support.spectrasonics.net for more info.

Glenn Olander
Spectrasonics

[erikjamesmusic]

Kubi - Amazing how DP people aren't even aware of this awesome feature. A MAJOR shortcoming of DP, if you ask me.

Glenn - Thanks for chiming in. I will definitely try the MIDI Learn function in Stylus. Kontakt 3.5 has the same feature. Toontrack EZ PLayer PRO also has this feature, but it doesn't work properly for me

[James Steele]

Kubi - Amazing how DP people aren't even aware of this awesome feature. A MAJOR shortcoming of DP, if you ask me.

That all depends on how often you'd use it. One man's major shortcoming is hardly noticed by another. Yet, still... I realize forums like this won't rest until one DAW is all things to all users.

[erikjamesmusic]

Kubi - Amazing how DP people aren't even aware of this awesome feature. A MAJOR shortcoming of DP, if you ask me.

That all depends on how often you'd use it. One man's major shortcoming is hardly noticed by another. Yet, still... I realize forums like this won't rest until one DAW is all things to all users.

True, James. I feel like there are enough like-minded composer/producers who use DP like I do (mostly in the VI/MIDI realm), and that more users would be complaining about not having a pretty basic feature like this. Then again, I guess if I want this feature badly enough, I should go buy Logic 9. I was just hoping to be loyal to DP

Ultimately, whatever tool allows me to streamline the process of making music is the one I should be using for that particular gig. I've come to the realization that DP does so many things "better" than Logic, and vice versa.

[Shooshie]

I see in some of these threads so much complaining of the same old subjects: automation, regions, and grids, that I often wonder if some people are trolling or really asking for clarification. It's just that it doesn't seem to matter how much anyone clarifies any side of such discussions; these topics are like the Energizer Bunny. (and they're in the wrong forum) If anyone such as myself takes a stand such as the one I'm taking now, we're labeled in some condescending tone as intolerant, or even ignorant of the problems. Great Unicorns, folks. These subjects have been the source of endless debate. I usually don't even participate, but things are getting very imbalanced, and I'm smelling the scent of troll in some of these threads. I don't mean to accuse anyone who is innocent, so please don't take this personally if you don't feel like it applies. But good grief…

Regions
Automation (MIDI Learn)
Grid
RAG

Is there anyone left who does not understand that DP does not provide an overlay that transfers automation directly from an external source to any feature on any plugin ever written by any developer however intelligent or stupid? What would you call such an overlay? (Environment, they called it in Logic… yes… why I remember meeting Doctor Livingston in the Jungle, and the first words out of his mouth were "Bless my soul, chap! Did you bring the Environment?" I replied, "why, of course that would have been the LOGICAL thing to do, but I brought Digital Performer instead!" He was incensed. Three days later, his body was floating down the Motools River, and I was navigating intuitively, as always, right up PeeTee Falls, thanks to DP!)

Well, the bottom line is that things are fine here in DeePee world. In DP we can automate pretty much anything we want, but the need to connect every single adjustable control to an external fader or knob eludes me. That does not mean I do not properly understand the parameters of the subject matter. It means that I find this subject to be very adequately discussed, and yet those pushing for their trophy feature do not seem to understand the features that DO exist in DP. And yes, MIDI Learn exists in many instruments and plugins, including Spectrasonics products, Wallander's amazing WIVI, NI's Kontakt, MOTU's Mach Five, MOTU's Modulo, Applied Acoustics Systems amazing synths, and… do I need to go on?

If the developer wrote the plugin to accept MIDI Learn, it's there. If not, it's not.

Regions, Automation (MIDI Learn), Grid. How much RAGging are we going to have to endure this time around? I apologize if this seems harsh; it's not intended personally. It's just that… gentlemen, we've discussed it! We know how everyone feels, and now you know how I feel, too. A little peevish tonight, yes?

I've said enough.

Shooshie

[bongo_x]

I would think it would be pretty obvious that the new people, or people trying a new technique, haven’t discussed it enough, and the answers wouldn’t be as apparent to them as someone who’s used the program for decades.

Anyone who’s used the internet for any amount of time soon realizes that new people show up to discussion boards with questions that experienced people already know the answer to.

People complain about the usability of a product because they’re not happy with it and would like to see it changed. They post in forums to see if others feel likewise or have some technique for getting around it they’ve missed.

bb

[Shooshie]

New users need a video that explains that in DP, the following things will be different from what they are used to:

Regions, Automation (MIDI Learn), Grids…
RAG

In some cases they may be deficient to what you're accustomed to. In others, just different. Sometimes I see DP being misrepresented by people who should know better by now (not the original poster, by the way), other times the desired information is there but ignored, since the threads just continue to grow. Sure, new users need to be able to ask how to do things, but when it's been explained by several people, it's been explained!

I admit to being overbearing in some of my responses tonight. I should stay out of the RAG threads.

Nevertheless, I do get tired of seeing them constantly appearing in this forum. Complaints go to the complaints forum. That includes "you know that feature in Logic…?"

Shooshie

[erikjamesmusic]

Shooshie,

Let me apologize. I intended this thread to be about workflow, and if you follow the entire thread, some of my workflow questions were answered adequately. I put this post in this forum because I was curious about how other users were "getting around" the program. I didn't mean for this to turn into a "Logic-DP" comparison. One of my questions has still gone unanswered though: How are other users automating plugin parameters effectively in DP? That's all I want to know so that I can adapt to the software.

I was also unaware of RAG, as you refer to it. I'm glad I know now never to bring up complaints about Region, automation, and grid ever again. I understand no program can have every feature every user wants in it, but MIDI learn just seems like a basic no-brainer to me. Obviously I don't understand software design very well. I have a question for you though: if users stopped complaining about features they think are important, than how would MOTU know what their customers need for the next update of DP?

those pushing for their trophy feature do not seem to understand the features that DO exist in DP.

This is exactly WHY i'm posting in the first place, Shooshi. To try and gain a better understanding of features that DO exist in DP. For instance, when you want to automate an LFO sweep in a 3rd party plugin, do you just use the mouse? Do you pencil it in SE insert? If so, how do you know the CC# of the parameter you want to automate?

Do these seem like reasonable questions to you?

[benmrx]

New users need a video that explains that in DP, the following things will be different from what they are used to:

Regions, Automation (MIDI Learn), Grids…
RAG

I actually think that would be a great idea! In fact I'de even purchase those videos.

....when you want to automate an LFO sweep in a 3rd party plugin, do you just use the mouse? Do you pencil it in SE insert? If so, how do you know the CC# of the parameter you want to automate?

What I've done is to put the track into automation record mode, move the LFO slider in the plugin, then hit stop. This will put a bit of automation data in the track for said LFO. I find this much easier than digging through all the automation parameters for a givin plugin in the "insert" dropdown list, because that list can be EXTREMELY long for plugins that have a bazillion controls. After you've got that bit of automation data in the track, you can access that particular paramter by looking in the current active layer dropdown.. which is the top most dropdown list in a given tracks controls in the SE. On instrument tracks it defaults to "volume", for audio tracks it defaults to "soundbites", for MIDI tracks the default is "note".

At this point then yes.. it's all about drawing it in or just moving the knob in the plugin UI. However, if you haven't noticed... DP has some amazing automation tools, some that even PT doesn't have.. and well. "L" doesn't really have ANY except for a basic line tool. But DP gives you:

Straight Lines
Flat Lines
Sine Wave
Square Wave
Triangle Wave
Random Ramps
Random Steps
Parabola
Spline (my personal favorite!)

So yeah... no MIDI learn for plugins that don't have it built in,... the flip side is having one of the best sets of automation tools around.