Masterworks Leveler not behaving correctly!

[teesav]

Greetings everyone or anyone who's reading this. I haven't been on here in a while which is probably a good thing right?

I don't know if anyone else has or is having this problem or let's say symptom. Here it is in a nutshell:

I'm using DP 6.02.
I use the MW Leveler on a track or two or more. I mess with the settings until I'm satisfied with the sound. Continue to mix. I save at the end of the session. When I reopen the file. Every track that has the Leveler on it sounds like it has lost it's volume. Even stranger, when I open the mixing board window and click on the MW Leveler, the volume comes back.

Has anyone else experienced this? It wouldn't be a big problem except that when I bounce to disk, the same problem randomly shows up.

Now, we all know what a hassle it would be to have to listen to every bounce of the mix and try to isolate each part the had the MW Leveler on it and make sure it's sounds the same as it did when you were mixing it.

Does anyone have any clues to this mystery?

Thanks in advance!

T

[motuscott]

This is a known behavior. Please see Magic Dave's explanation on page 7 of the DP tip sheet.

[cloudsplitter]

This is a known behavior. Please see Magic Dave's explanation on page 7 of the DP tip sheet.

I would also suggest printing this off and keeping it nearby...it helps to understand the MW Leveler

[mpanza]

Where is this "tip sheet" from Magic Dave? I've searched the forum and can't seem to find it?

[buzzsmith]

Here you go...this is page 7.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 0&start=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buzzy

[David Polich]

Magic Dave's explanation can be summed up in "Save State". Seems you
should always do that before closing the MW Leveler's window.

This "accuracy" of the LA-2A emulation in the MW Leveler does, a least
for me, beg the question - why doesn't UAD's LA2A behave this way? Why
doesn't Waves LA2A emulation behave this way? With either of those plugs,
there's none of this "save state" business. If I save and close a project
with a couple of UAD LA2A's on vocal tracks, the next time I come back to
it, it plays back sounding like I remembered - it doesn't sound any
different.

Anyway, for me, this is why I have the MW Leveler disabled in my DP
preferences. The warm-up, cool-down behavior and having to select "Save
State" before closing windows kills any usefulness this plug-in may have
( for me).

[FMiguelez]

Magic Dave's explanation can be summed up in "Save State". Seems you
should always do that before closing the MW Leveler's window.

This "accuracy" of the LA-2A emulation in the MW Leveler does, a least
for me, beg the question - why doesn't UAD's LA2A behave this way? Why
doesn't Waves LA2A emulation behave this way? With either of those plugs,
there's none of this "save state" business. If I save and close a project
with a couple of UAD LA2A's on vocal tracks, the next time I come back to
it, it plays back sounding like I remembered - it doesn't sound any
different.

Anyway, for me, this is why I have the MW Leveler disabled in my DP
preferences. The warm-up, cool-down behavior and having to select "Save
State" before closing windows kills any usefulness this plug-in may have
( for me).

Yup. I tried messing with it the other day, and didn't like all that hassle. I wish they took that behavior off the plug in and make it like any other normal plug-in in this regard!

I mean, who would want that behavior anyway? And why? Just to be more "accurate"?

[mhschmieder]

Good timing, as it's been long enough since I used this plug on a project, that I had forgotten about the "save state" and warm-up quirks!

I only use this plug on live projects vs. MIDI-based projects. I love it on bass and vocals, and I think I might use it on some drums (such as kick). I use it last in chain, as opposed to serving the function of a compressor.

I can understand disabling it due to trouble remembering or dealing with its quirky and unique behaviour, but only if one has another equivalent emu or hardware clone, as it truly is a unique processor.

I can't think off-hand of any native equivalents; just non-native stuff like UAD-1. Am I missing one? I use some T-RackS plugs as well, but don't really think of their Opto-Compressor as a Leveller like the LA-2A/LA-3A.

[magicd]

Yup. I tried messing with it the other day, and didn't like all that hassle. I wish they took that behavior off the plug in and make it like any other normal plug-in in this regard!

I mean, who would want that behavior anyway? And why? Just to be more "accurate"?

Yes, to be more accurate. Do you want an optical compressor or not? If you want an optical compressor, the warm up/decay functions are part of the "sound".

If you pick up a violin and can't play it, do you conclude that violins are useless? A better approach may be to learn what it does and how to use it. At least then if you don't use it, that will be because you don't need what it does.

The Leveler is an amazing processor. I find myself using it more and more in my mixes. I put it on kick, snare, guitars, and vocals. Back in my analog days I would have killed for this quality of processing, especially considering that I run it on many tracks at the same time.

I'm using an UltraLite mk3 for gigging. I'm running my guitar and an MS2000 synth through Levelers on the the UltraLite inputs. You can't get that sound with a dynamics based compressor.

The MW Leveler is as close to the real thing as you can get with software. Personally I am glad for that.

Dave

[magicd]

I can't think off-hand of any native equivalents; just non-native stuff like UAD-1.

Did they make it so the set screw on the front panel graphic actually does anything? On a real LA-2A, that screw is actually on the back panel. On the MW Leveler, the set screw is represented by the Response knob, which does actually do what the original does.

Also, we modeled more than one LA-2A and actually have four models to choose from. I don't know of any other LA-2A emulation that actually takes into account that these things were hand made in the 1960s.

Dave

[Tritonemusic]

Hi Dave,

Are there any specific models you use for specific tasks? I'm just wondering if you use the same model for snare all the time, or vocals, etc. I'm testing them all out a lot right now, but it would be cool to know if you have any personal preferences.

[magicd]

Hi Dave,

Are there any specific models you use for specific tasks? I'm just wondering if you use the same model for snare all the time, or vocals, etc. I'm testing them all out a lot right now, but it would be cool to know if you have any personal preferences.

The vintage models have slightly slower response. For individual drums I want the fastest response possible. For a drum bus I would go with slower response. For vocals and guitar I also like the slower response.

The Leveler is dual stage. It has one set of characteristics that is based on the shape of the waveform. That's how it can have a ten microsecond attack. Then there is a secondary characteristic which is the much slower "saturation" effect. How the secondary compression works is totally dependent on average input level and how much gain reduction is applied.

2-4 db of compression with the Leveler sounds completely different than 20 db of compression. Heavy compression is an obvious effect, but it can sound just amazing. I'm a big fan of compressed two-bus drums. I heard a description of Ringos' cymbals once "they sound like a freight train coming at you". I love that squash on the two bus. That's the kind of compression where you do need to think about the "saved state"

On the kick and snare I run less compression and turn the Response knob all the way up. This gives me that 70's fat sound.

On my live guitar I'm running quite a bit of compression before the signal goes to amp. Think Frank Zappa (I wish!)

I love compressors. One of my other favorites is the Sonalksis SV-315. It sounds very different than the Leveler. Having a few different compressors on hand is like having a good collection of microphones.

Dave

[Tritonemusic]

Thanks so much for that. It's really helpful and I appreciate it.

[David Polich]

Dave, didn't mean to imply that the Leveler is not a quality plug-in.
I have tried it, for me the way it works isn't my cup of tea - personally
I don't care about accuracy to that degree, I just want something to sound
good and work as simply as possible.

A lot of users have reported that they really like the MW Leveler. Again,
it's just too finicky for me.

I do love all the new MOTU guitar pedals, and Proverb too - they see heavy use in every project I'm doing now.

[magicd]

Dave, didn't mean to imply that the Leveler is not a quality plug-in.
I have tried it, for me the way it works isn't my cup of tea - personally
I don't care about accuracy to that degree, I just want something to sound
good and work as simply as possible.

A lot of users have reported that they really like the MW Leveler. Again,
it's just too finicky for me.

No worries! I didn't want to come off as too defensive either. I understand that A: The behavior of the Leveler catches a lot of people by surprise, and B: It's just a tool and it's up to the user of the tool to decide if the tool is useful to them.

I was checking out some McDSP software the other day and it had tape recorder emulations in it. You could choose Japanese or German tape machines. You could adjust the bias and tape speed. The only thing I didn't see was a way to add tape hiss...
Although I found this software to be interesting, I personally have no desire to make my music sound like it's being played back from a 1979 Sony deck running at 15ips. For someone else, this could be the critical process they need to finish a project.

When will someone come up with a plug-in that makes it sound like you are lighting your studio only with LavaLamps?

Dave