DP and the Yamaha Motif XS8

[DMac]

...just two quick questions.

1. I've only used virtual instruments up to now, but I'm trying to hook up my XS8 to DP. I have it connected via firewire, it shows up in MIDI devices and the test setup shows it working. But when when I add a MIDI track, my only available output is IAC Driver 1-16 (I guess input is not selectable for MIDI inputs). How do I get DP to recognize my XS8?

2. I downloaded a file called Motif XS 8.midnam which contains the patch names. Where should this file be placed?

[SmilesLots]

What MIDI interface are you using. You do know that you have to connect up the MIDI in and MIDI out to a MIDI interface and then that to your computer, right? Then you set it up in Apple's Audi-MIDI setup program.

And BTW, there are some very inexpensive USB to MIDI converters. I bought several of them before getting a second Motu interface. On eBay they were under $10, but good for only one device. If you have several hardware synths and sound modues, you need something like the MTP-AV/USB by Motu. Gives you 8 ins and 8 outs.

And if the file is not already there, place the midnam in the Library - Audio - MIDI Devices - Motu - Yamaha folder.

To use your firewire device, just place the midnam in the above mentioned folder. When you go to Audio-MIDI setup, your firewire interface should show up. Add the Motif as a new device, "wire" it to the interface, select in in the drop down menus, and you should be good to go. I'm accustomed to USB interfaces, so if that does not work, sorry - it's the best I know.

[DMac]

...hey thanks for the reply. One question. I didn't have a MIDI Devices folder under the Library/Audio folder. I created one (MIDI Devices/Motu/Yamaha) and put the midnam file there, but when I created a new device, the Yamaha XS8 isn't on the list so it doesn't call up the right patches. Do I need to put the midnam file somewhere else?

Thanks

[David Polich]

Forget the midname - whatever. Also, ditch the Firewire
connection. It isn't going to work in this case.

Connect the XS MIDI OUT to the MIDI IN of whatever it is you
use as a MIDI interface connected to your computer.

Connect the MIDI OUT of the MIDI interface to the MIDI IN of
the XS.

Open Audio MIDI Setup (it's in your Utilities folder on your
main hard drive).

Select the "MIDI Devices" window. You should see the icon for
your audio/MIDI interface(s) in the window already.

Select and click on "Add Device". An icon will appear, probably
a keyboard, and it will be labeled "New External Device".

Click on the "up arrow" on the device icon, this is your MIDI OUT,
and drag up to the "up arrow" icon on the MIDI device icon. As you drag
up, you'll see a virtual cable appear. Connect the other end of the
virtual cable to the "up arrow" (MIDI IN) on your MIDI interface's
icon.

Do the same thing for the MIDI OUT going from the MIDI interface (the
"down arrow") to the "down arrow" (MIDI IN) on your keyboard icon.

Now double-click on the "New External Device" icon. A window will open up
and you can define the device here. Name it "MOTIF XS" In the "Manufacturer"
field, select "Yamaha" from the drop down list. Once you do that, go to
"Model" field, click on it to open up the drop-down list, select "MOTIF ES_"
whatever (there is no listing for the MOTIF XS). If you have an XS8, then select "MOTIF ES8".

Now you will see that the "Transmits", "Receives", and "Features" boxes will be all set up accordingly. You can change the transmit and receive assignments if you want.

Once you're happy with everything in this window, click on "Apply" and
close it.

Now close Audio MIDI Setup.

Now, when you launch DP, your Motif XS should show up as both a transmitting
device (controller, or input source), and a receiving destination (you will likely see it listed as "Motif XS ---" with a MIDI channel for each MIDI channel it receives on).

If you are using the XS as a MIDI controller and a receiving sound module,
be sure to turn local control OFF on the XS.

You asked about a correct patch list for the XS8 - sorry, there isn't one.
Trust me, forget about a patch list. Select patches the old fashioned, reliable way - by hand, on the XS itself.If you want to enter what patch (or "voice" as Yamaha calls it) you used, record enable the MIDI track you're entering data on, then select the voice's bank and number. Then hit record and press the voice number button again..this will enter a patch change into your
MIDI track.

[HCMarkus]

Dave, I know you know the Yamaha gear really well, but what about Cherry Picker? I was able to add a patch list for my S90ES. I found the list somewhere on the web.

Also, I seem to recall a thread a while back concerning using the Firewire interface for digital audio form a Yamaha axe.

[SmilesLots]

I have a complete midnam for the Motif Rack XS. Maybe you could use that with Cherry Picker to create a full idnam. BTW when you install Motu's software for whatever MIDI interface you have, it will create the missing folder (and a lot more). I have not checked if the midnam for the synth you have is there.but it may be. Let me go to that computer.

OK. I checked and yes I do have a midnam for the Motif XS 8. So it gets installed once you download and install Motu's software for a MIDI interface - like the MTP-AV. You may simply be missing that driver and its associated files.

[SmilesLots]

And just in case you do not get the midnam installed by the Motu software, Digicake has a DP version at:

http://www.digicake.com/midnam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DMac]

...thanks all for the fast advice. I did get the firewire (and Yamaha studio manager as standalone) working. I then created a new device and wired it to the firewire. But when I created the device, the xs8 wasn't listed so naturally the patches are all wrong. I did get the patch names from digicake, but again, I didn't have a folder called MIDI Devices in my library/audio folder and it didn't help to add a new path for the midnam file (MIDI Devices/Motu/Yamaha).

Besides, if David P. is right, it wouldn't work anyway. I'm just curious where all the MIDI names for all the other devices in the device setup page are places. Maybe if I placed the midnam file there it would recognize it.

At any rate, I think what I might need to do is install CueBase and use it with my Yamaha. It's apparently tightly integrated. And since I'm using it for church praise services, I need to create seven or more backing songs each week. With CueBase it looks like I can do all the editing on my desktop using my controller keyboard and save all the file parameters together in a single file.

Don't know if installing a second DAW will create problems, but I think I need to go that route anyway.

[SmilesLots]

Yamaha and Cuebase it seems are meant to be used together. DP is one of the absolute best MIDI programs available. But it likse to use Motu's own MIDI interfaces. That's partly why I asked in my first question what kind of MIDI interface you were using.

Another great website dedicated to the Yamaha Motif is:

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewforum/108/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

in case you did not already know. And if you do want to use DP with all those patch names, all you need to do is get a Motu MIDI interface, and with all that has been contributed here, you can be up and running. Just a thought. Good luck.

[NazRat]

...just two quick questions.

1. I've only used virtual instruments up to now, but I'm trying to hook up my XS8 to DP. I have it connected via firewire, it shows up in MIDI devices and the test setup shows it working. But when when I add a MIDI track, my only available output is IAC Driver 1-16 (I guess input is not selectable for MIDI inputs). How do I get DP to recognize my XS8?

2. I downloaded a file called Motif XS 8.midnam which contains the patch names. Where should this file be placed?

You also have to make an entry in the Yamaha.middev file in Library/Audio/MIDI Devices/MOTU/Yamaha folder. Cherry Picker will do this for you if you edit the .midnam file with it or it's easy to just duplicate an existing entry. Use a text editor to open the file (even though it's XML). Insert the following into the file just above the last line which reads </MIDIDeviceTypes>.

Backup the original before editing. You can see the file structure and the XML tags must be paired. A bad insert will mess things up.

Code: Select all

<MIDIDeviceType Manufacturer="Yamaha" Model="MOTIF XS 8" SupportsGeneralMIDI="true" SupportsMMC="true" IsSampler="false" IsDrumMachine="false" IsMixer="false" IsEffectUnit="false" >
		<InquiryResponse Manufacturer="43" Family="00 41" Member="6B 05" />
		<DeviceID Min="1" Max="16" Default="1" Base="1" />
		<Receives MaxChannels="16" MTC="true" Clock="true" Notes="true" ProgramChanges="true" BankSelectMSB="true" BankSelectLSB="true" PanDisruptsStereo="false" />
		<Transmits MaxChannels="4" MTC="false" Clock="true" Notes="true" ProgramChanges="true" BankSelectMSB="true" BankSelectLSB="true" />
</MIDIDeviceType>

It is important that the Model= parameter in the .middev file and the Model tag inside the .midnam patch file match. In your post you had MOTIF XS 8 - make sure all the names match including spaces (the MOTU profile for the ES box is MOTIF ES8 - no space between the ES and 8 ) so check the name because it came from a different source. In the above, I left the space.

[HCMarkus]

And if you do want to use DP with all those patch names, all you need to do is get a Motu MIDI interface.

You don't need a MOTU MIDI interface. You can interface via USB. My S90ES is connected with USB and I have full access to all patch names in DP (after installing an S90ES file someone was courteous enough to create and post on the web) and can select patches in any ES bank from within DP without any difficulty. NazRat looks like he is pointing you in the right direction. I did it with Cherry Picker, which is readily available for free download.

http://www.alterspective.com/cherrypicker/

[David Polich]

I differ with maybe a lot of people, in that I don't believe in making
things more difficult than necessary. Cherry Picker does work, but good
grief, by the time you get it set up, enter the pairs, etc., you could
easily have found the voice or performance you're looking for by using
the XS's own Category Search function.

This is also why I don't believe in using patch lists. For one thing,
they're limited to preset banks. Number two, there's no categorization -
how would you know what the difference was between a sound called
"Inspektor" and a sound called "Julie's Dream"? It takes less time to
scroll through voices using the Motif's Category Search than it does to
scroll through a patch list.

If you set up the Motif XS with either USB or Firewire, Audio MIDI setup
sees it as a routing device - not as a hardware synth.In other words, it thinks it's something like a MIDI Timepiece or an 828 MK III. That's why it is always best to hook it up via MIDI. Yes, I know, MIDI is as old as the
hills, but it is the most reliable way to interface any synth with DP.

I don't recommend using Cubase simply to route the Motif XS in and out,
unless you're going to stop using DP and just use Cubase. There is no point
in "switching" between the two.

Whenever I see someone having trouble with USB connections, I recommend they
simply switch back to MIDI. MIDI always works, and it is very simple.

[HCMarkus]

Good point on the category search thing David. I still find it handy to have DP set up my Motif and S90 for me when I open a project. When working in DP, I can still use the keyboards' Category Search feature to locate my patch, then select it in DP.

USB does hang occasionally for me, but so does MIDI, which I use for older non-USB synths. USB resets by unplugging and re-plugging, so hangs are easy to fix. I like the USB bandwidth, compared to MIDI. Not sure it makes a difference in reality, but can't USB can pass a lot more data in any given time period than MIDI?

[David Polich]

Good point on the category search thing David. I still find it handy to have DP set up my Motif and S90 for me when I open a project. When working in DP, I can still use the keyboards' Category Search feature to locate my patch, then select it in DP.

USB does hang occasionally for me, but so does MIDI, which I use for older non-USB synths. USB resets by unplugging and re-plugging, so hangs are easy to fix. I like the USB bandwidth, compared to MIDI. Not sure it makes a difference in reality, but can't USB can pass a lot more data in any given time period than MIDI?

Yes, USB can pass more data than MIDI. The trouble folks get into easily is
that they try to use USB for everything at once - audio, MIDI,data transfer, and controller.
I believe it is better to keep MIDI connections and USB connections separate.

[DMac]

...I hate not being able to post at work!

Thanks for all the help. Nazrat, I wish I could try inserting your code, but since I don't have a MIDI Device Folder to start with, there is no where to put it. That's odd because I would have thought that since I use an ultralite for my MIDI connection (I use another Yamaha keyboard as a controller and I use the Ultralite MIDI IN for my controller. I go from MAC to the Ultralite via firewire.

I've never had to mess with the 'wiring' of one device to another since up to now I haven't used any MIDI devices, just VIs. I do wish I could change all the parameters of the Motif XS8 from within DP. That way it's saved with the file. Right now, it doesn't do me much good to create a song using DP and the Motif because any changes I make to patch (voice) parameters would be lost since they're not saved with the DP file.

Maybe for now I'll do what Dave P. suggested and just manually change patches.

About all I can offer in return for all the help is to offer up some great music on my website (mackiemusic.com)! No, not a shameless plug for me, I no longer have any expectations of making it big (or little). I just think it's always interesting to hear what other people are doing musically. Clearly I'm doing quite a few things wrong since I've not landed a single project since I began composing. But I'll be unselfish and and leave all the success up to you guys! I've heard some of the music here and read all the credentials and it's pretty damn impressive. But at least give my Sorcerer's Apprentice trailer rescore a listen. IMHO, it's quite good. :)

Thanks again for all the suggestions.