Using NI Finger in DP - help please...

[tonyvose]

Hello -- I don't think this is out of line: I want to use NI's Finger on a vocal track, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this: How to be able to nly hear the affected signal (the 'Finger'ed' audio) without hearing the original audio; can't quite figure out how to do it. If anyone has the answer I'd be most appreciative. Thanks very much.
Tony

[mikeka]

Finger needs the NI Kore player to work (free). First put the Kore player as an insert into the track you want to affect. Create a MIDI track routed to the Kore player. Inside Kore select effects/Finger. You'll see all the Finger presets. Works fine in DP and is a great plug.

[tonyvose]

Thanks very much for your response. Although I have downloaded & installed the free KORE player, I'm choosing to use Finger within Reaktor; I'm more familiar with the Reaktor interface... I wonder, if possible please, if you could give me a little more of a detailed explanation of the steps I would take as far as instantiation/routing etc., so that I will be able to 'print' a new audio track that only has the 'Finger-affected' signal, without any of the source audio in it, as that's what I'm having trouble achieving.. Thank you Mike, very much.
Tony

[wheever]

I don't own The Finger, and I'm not familiar with its interface or capabilities specifically, but Reaktor I know well. (Check my avatar. Heh.) Reaktor installs an AU called "Reaktor FX" that you insert on a track in the mixer like any other effect. From there you are given the option to load an ensemble. I assume The Finger loads as any other Reaktor ensemble does.

However, the question is if The Finger does processing of incoming audio at all, and I don't have the answer to this. But I do know it is often a very simple thing to connect Reaktor's audio ins to some part of an ensemble that might not otherwise allow realtime external processing. A quick and dirty way is to view the ensemble structure, find where there is perhaps an audio source switch, and connect the input block there. This, I think, is beyond the scope of a post on a MOTU board, so you might ask around on the NI-Reaktor board.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how NI feels about us monkeying around with the guts of their commercial ensembles.

HTH

[mikeka]

Thanks very much for your response. Although I have downloaded & installed the free KORE player, I'm choosing to use Finger within Reaktor; I'm more familiar with the Reaktor interface... I wonder, if possible please, if you could give me a little more of a detailed explanation of the steps I would take as far as instantiation/routing etc., so that I will be able to 'print' a new audio track that only has the 'Finger-affected' signal, without any of the source audio in it, as that's what I'm having trouble achieving.. Thank you Mike, very much.
Tony

Sorry Tony, I know nothing about Reaktor. Finger is easy to use in DP though. To print audio in DP you select both the MIDI track routed to Kore which AND the audio track you're affecting (or 'effecting' as it were ) and use 'freeze track' from DPs menu.

[jloeb]

Ah I think I see what you're asking: you want to know how to end up with a track that only shows any audio signal when you're holding down one of the keys in The Finger.

Assuming that's what you mean, then no, I don't think there's any way to do that except for manually editing your printed track to excise any of the unaffected signal. That shouldn't take long to do though. You can put The Finger's MIDI track next to your printed audio track and use it as a guide for your editing.

(If that's not what you're asking, then I'm not sure what's confusing you, because Reaktor FX behave exactly like any other fx insert: Know how to print a new audio track with your favorite EQ insert applied to it? Same thing.)

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EDIT: I shouldn't have said "no way to do it" because there's a way to do pretty much anything at all in Reaktor.

Presumably, within the ensemble there's a module that shunts the incoming audio to the effects chain depending on what MIDI key is being depressed. I imagine that module is fairly complex and custom-written. But within it there must be a command that, when no key is depressed, bypasses the effects chain and passes the audio through to the main outs. So the thing to do would be to rewrite it so that when no key is depressed, there is no audio sent to the main outputs. This might only require a single-line (and possibly only single variable) change in the code, but is something that only real ensembleheads can help with, and I haven't done this myself.

The only other (non-Reaktor programming) way I can think of to do it would be to put a MIDI-activated gate insert after Reaktor, and send MIDI both to The Finger and the gate using either a MIDI group or multi-record, so that pressing any MIDI key opens the gate and allows the treated audio through. Then put this whole thing on an Aux from your source track so that you can hear it while using Finger.

[mike_o]

I think I know how to do what you want, but I have no idea how to type it, I will try and come up with an answer for you tomorrow.

[tonyvose]

Thank you all very much. I'm not sure why it didn't work for me before, but now I've got it: as had been said, just open up an instance of Reaktor in an insert on the audio track, choose the 'Finger' ensemble within Reaktor, then create a MIDI track and choose 'Reaktor' and whichever audio track name matches the one where Reaktor is. Record-enable the MIDI track, twiddle some knobs in the Finger, and that's it. Then, what I'm doing is creating a new bus-out from a send in the audio track (say, 63-64), then creating a new (empty) audio track with the input set to the same bus (BUT setting the OUTPUT of this new track to different outputs, to avoid a feedback loop..), putting the new audio track in 'record,' and record the new 'Fingered' audio while tweaking the Finger knobs in real time, to get variations. My original gripe is still slightly there, in that it still sounds a little bit like there are 'two signals' going to track, mostly the new 'Fingered' audio but still a bit of the original... I've messed with the dry/wet knob in Finger but it doesn't seem to help much... but all in all it's working pretty well. Thanks again everyone for your help.
Tony

[jloeb]

OK, good to hear.
This is the same way you would treat any MIDI-tweakable insert effect.
The Finger (at least the way I understand and use it) is a way to tweak input signal in real time using keyswitchable fx that can be turned on and off instantaneously. So the "dry" signal will always come through when the keys are up, and even when a key is down, the idea of these fx generally isn't to transform the input beyond all recognition, so you'd expect to still hear aspects of the original input.

[tonyvose]

Yes, thanks jloeb, you are right as far as the original audio signal still usually being audible along with what the effect is doing. I guess I was just hoping for no trace of it, but it's alright.
I certainly realize that, as far along as this discussion got re: The Finger, this forum might not have been the place to get into it this deep...maybe. Thanks all again.
Tony

[wheever]

Given that it's Reaktor, you can probably mod the ensemble to eliminate the dry signal if that's what you want. (Save it under a different name when you're done.) Might be as easy as disconnecting a couple of "wires."

But yes, probably this isn't the forum for discussing that.

[DJeff]

Guys,

Not that I want to start a war here but, why isn't it the place to discuss Reaktor with DP??? We discuss the use of UAD, Kontakt, Waves, etc...

Cheers

[jloeb]

Not that I want to start a war here but, why isn't it the place to discuss Reaktor with DP??? We discuss the use of UAD, Kontakt, Waves, etc...

Yeah I think it's fine to discuss it here. And actually it turned out that his question was basic and not truly Reaktor-specific anyhow.

I think all that was being implied is that, generally, one might benefit from more and better responses to Reaktor-specific questions by posting someplace like the NI Reaktor users forum. I personally have no problem with Reaktorese being spoken here though.