DP is lowering waveform levels on import... HELP!

[splproductions]

For many years I've imported audio from professionally recorded CD's to try to match their levels when I master one of my own tracks. You know how it looks when you import a professionally mastered pop song - it's almost just one long fat chunk of waveform because the levels are so hot. You hit play and the master fader is slamming up right to the clipping indicator but it never clips. But lately when I import music, the waveform doesn't go all the way to the limit. It's like DP is putting a ceiling on the audio - it's still very compressed, but it only goes 50% of the distance it should. On the master fader, the levels are barely hitting 0, whereas they used to go right up to +6.

I hope that makes sense. Does anyone know of any setting in DP I might have changed on accident?

[FMiguelez]

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Maybe those songs were mastered better (as in without excessive regard to loudness)?

I can't think of any process in DP where it would "restore" lost loudness or reduce the loudness of a track the way you describe... unless your master fader or channel track is down and you are monitoring through an external mixer or something? Is there any busing involved at all? It sounds to me like you are reducing the gain somewhere in the chain by mistake.

But then correcting that wouldn't make the song hit 0 dB more often, of course...

[splproductions]

There isn't any bussing going on, and there really isn't any chain to speak of where it could be getting reduced. I'm using an 828mkIII for my A/D, no external mixer, just going straight from the 828 to my monitors.

I'm basically importing straight from a CD into DP, and then dragging it out to a track. I can tell just from looking at it that it's not at full volume.

For example: Today I was going to make a little mastering demo CD for a client. I felt like I could produce a hotter master than where they got their last CD mastered. I imported a track from their last CD, and when I saw the waveform, I was floored! The guy didn't even master their CD! I did a quick little master using the L2 Ultramaximizer, which added about 7db to the mix (that's a TON!). I exported it to my desktop and threw it into iTunes to listen to it.

Now here's the thing: I next imported the original track straight off of the CD via iTunes. When I compared the original track to my "quick master", they were almost identical in loudness, which confirms what I was suspecting. iTunes is importing at it's regular level, and DP is somehow putting a ceiling on tracks when I import them.

[FMiguelez]

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I don't think that's possible. You are describing a gain reduction behavior. You could do that in DP by selecting the soundbite and processing it with the Trim plug, for instance. But there's nothing in DP that would do this on its own while importing audio. There's no such setting that I know of.

You MUST have something interfering with the gain somewhere. What about your audio interface itself? Have you checked its software interface to rule this out?

[FMiguelez]

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Wait... actually, has the sound changed in any way?

Could it be a simpler thing such as viewing the soundbite with the vertical zoom too high (or too low)? Not the track height, but the actual soundbite vertical zoom (the little handle at the left of the track). If you move that one, the SB seems to have reduced (or increased) its amplitude, but it's just a visual thing.

[James Steele]

Yeah... something is way off base here. DP would not apply some sort of destructive processing on importing audio just randomly like this. Of course, now this topic sits here-- it's title asserting something is happening that probably isn't. So who has time to disprove this notion? Probably not Magic Dave, our resident MOTU hero, but it would be helpful if he could debunk this.

[HCMarkus]

Dude, something is wrong, but I sincerely doubt it's DP.

You ARE importing digitally from a CD in your computer's optical drive, not from an external unit via A to D, right...?

[cuttime]

Is the audio being imported from iTunes with Soundcheck or enhancer on?

[James Steele]

You ARE importing digitally from a CD in your computer's optical drive, not from an external unit via A to D, right...?

Yeah... or he should maybe just drag the files from the Finder onto his hard drive from the CD?

[stephentayler]

Are you comparing these levels in iTunes? If you are, check Preferences>Playback and make sure Sound Check is not on.... if it, then is it is evening out the levels between tracks.

Also a good policy to make sure Sound Enhancer and Equaliser are switched off as well.

If it's not that. then I've no idea. DP has always imported CDs at predictable levels for me.

Kind Regards

Stephen

[newrigel]

Now here's the thing: I next imported the original track straight off of the CD via iTunes.

Trash DP's preferences.

[magicd]

Trash DP's preferences.

Why?


You can drag audio from a CD onto the desktop. That's the OS importing the track. You can play that audio in DP. Now drag the same audio from the CD directly into a track in DP. Now DP is doing the importing. The two files should be identical.

Dave

[1nput0utput]

You can drag audio from a CD onto the desktop. That's the OS importing the track. You can play that audio in DP. Now drag the same audio from the CD directly into a track in DP. Now DP is doing the importing. The two files should be identical.

Actually, I think the operating system's mechanism to manipulate the file system is being used in both cases, so the two methods you described are identical. Digital Performer is just giving you a "shortcut" by allowing you to drag files from the Finder to various program windows: "If the drag begins in the Finder and ends in a DP window, then import the file's soundbites and use the OS file copying mechanism to copy the file according to the user's preferences."

[Timeline]

Has to be done digitally. I assume your not running into your analog IO to do this. That won't work. As others mentioned just pull it off the CD to your desktop. That should open as an AIFF file and show the peak clipping properly from mastering.

Man why is everybody so into maxing out the limiters? I wish the AH's that set the 44.6 16bit standards back in the '80s were fired. I really believe they destroyed the music industry. Should have been minimum 24 bit. Maybe even 48K too.

Harder to steal back then and sonically superior. It's time to redo the standard, don't ya think?

[David Polich]

I think comparing a commercial CD track's level to your own level in DP is worthless and a complete waste of time. There are just too many other unknown variables that contributed to how the commercial track sounds.

It may not be politically correct to say this - but here goes - don't listen with your eyes.. How a waveform "looks" is not an indication of whether it's a good sounding master or not. I have plenty of commercial CD tracks that look like a big dark squared off block of audio, and they sound like absolute ••••. The only thing they have going for them is that they are all insanely loud, louder than I can make my own masters.

Second - I highly recommend that you master in a dedicated mastering program like BIAS Peak. You have more horsepower, more headroom, and more options in a dedicated mastering app. I would never master anything in DP, Logic, Pro Tools, or any DAW.

Here's the other thing - the goal in mastering a CD is to make sure all the tracks are balanced level-wise, and sound like they're all part of the same album. In Peak, you can do all your masters as 24-bit, then throw them all up together and "tile" them so they all appear on your screen at the same time. Then you can just randomly click on each track's window and it will play, and you can balance levels really easily this way. When you're done with your levels, you save each one as a dithered 16-bit audio file. You can't do this in DP.