DP for live keyboard use

[DigitalTube]

I own DP 5.0 and also Mach 5, is there anything new on the new versions of DP to allow you to set up all your keyboard sounds for live use, similar to Logic's SoundStage?
I use Mach 5, but it's limited to samples, trying to run all the synths like MMV, FM7, B4 Etc.
Thanks for any info..

[daniel.sneed]

I use chunks to set my different live steps.
Then, while the show goes on, I hit a MIDI pedal board to jump to the next chunk. Every VIs and effects come right in place in a glance.
You can set a patch at beginning of first bar.
Really that easy.

[Michael Canavan]

Just a little whine:
Yes Chunks are the way to go here, I was hoping that the Song Window would work for this, but all aux tracks through all Chunks in a Song are active at all times, so you get multiple volume boosts and other oddness when using multiple instances of the same aux track.
So say a V-Rack with Mach 5 where you add a reverb in one Chunk gets added to the Chunk where you use delay on that Mach 5 aux track etc.

[SixStringGeek]

is there anything new on the new versions of DP to allow you to set up all your keyboard sounds for live use, similar to Logic's SoundStage?

I found DP awkward for live use. I love it for recording, but I like simple things on stage so I wrote JambaLaya to play my Audio Units live and map them onto my keyboard.

[Michael Canavan]

SixStringGeek, your app looks great, but I need backing tracks live. My set up is that pads, Bass, and odd samples etc. are recorded into DP. Live I need a click track for the drummer, and quick changes between backing tracks, as well as on songs where I play keyboards VI racks, program changes sent to Guitar Rig etc. In some ways DP is better than Live for this, ( MIDI Sync works correctly for instance) so here I am.

[newrigel]

And just think... Wakeman did it all live he he!

[gseibert]

I saw Yes back in day. The tour where he was wearing the sequened cape!! 2 Mini-Moogs, B3, (of course), and much I don't quite remember. You know, the late 70's.

[Michael Canavan]

And just think... Wakeman did it all live he he!

Right, he played guitar while playing two synths and a couple samplers.... yawn...

No offense, but I never could stand his keyboard wanking. Give me Richard Wright ANY day of the week. IMO it's soul VS showing off.

[jquesta]

The biggest issue I've found is the lag between changing songs in DP and when I can start playing my boards. In my situation, I have different chunks for each song. Some of the songs have backing tracks, while other's simply set up the patches and routings for each keyboard.

My problem is when I change chunks, I have to wait for the patch changes to set up each keyboard (a total of 2 seconds at times) before I can play the routed keyboards / sound modules. Otherwise I get stuck notes. Also, when a chunk (sequence) is started, patch change information is sent again, meaning I can't be playing any of my routed keyboards / modules when I start the song.

I haven't graduated to VI's yet - Hopefully soon down the road - but the limitations I've found with routings and patch changes have really effected my ability to play the way I used to. However, I'm always open for suggestions.

[DigitalTube]

[quote="SixStringGeek"
I found DP awkward for live use. I love it for recording, but I like simple things on stage so I wrote JambaLaya to play my Audio Units live and map them onto my keyboard.[/quote]

I downloaded the JAMBALAYA demos, it looks like the perfect app for live playing, most of my synths worked fine, except NI FM7, and Machfive,(not version 2) and I'm running it on an old G4/Tiger, planning to get a new Intell Mac soon, and update the older synths too, question does Jambalaya work with Mach five 2.0?

Thank to all of you for the replies and suggestions.

[jquesta]

Good evening everyone,

I'm resurrecting this thread to see how those of you using DP for live performance have DP set up. I'm thinking I have to have something set up wrong for me to get the delays, stuck notes and other anomalies I'm experiencing. So I'll post my live rig information in hopes that someone can point me into the right direction.

DP And Mac information are in my signature.

Keyboards:
Kurzweil K2500 - Ch 1 through 16 in and out
Yamaha EX5 - Ch 1 through 16 in and out
Korg RK-100 - Ch 1 out only

Modules:
Kurzweil K2000R - Ch 1 - 16 in and out
Korg 01R/W - Ch 1 - 16 in and out
Roland JV-880 - Ch 1 in and out

MIDI Time Piece AV is my MIDI interface. All keyboards / modules are connected in and out. The MTP-AV is connected via a 25' USB cable plugged directly into the MacBook Pro.

In Clockworks, I've set up a completely blank routing. No keyboards to any other keyboards - just the basic factory settings. No modifiers or anything else like that.

I have a single program that I open up in DP called "Patches" that contains an entire list of chunks - a few with sequences with backing tracks, but the majority of them are tracks with keyboards routed to other keyboards or modules. In order to get the routings to play, I need to record-enable the individual tracks - so multi-record is turned on for each chunk. Each module "track" has a corresponding "default patch" so it changes per song.

Program changes are handled as follows:
For every song I have a different patch in the K2500. That patch sets up the K2500 internal sounds, and sends a patch change on Ch 16 to DP7. Under the "Commands" section inside the heading of "Chunk Selection" I've named each of my songs and set up the proper MIDI event (patch change) from the K2500. When the chunk is activated, DP sends the patch change events and record enables the tracks so my routing is complete.

The problems:
I am experiencing a slight MIDI delay throughout, which I can work around. However, each time I change from chunk to chunk, I have to wait a good 2 to 3 seconds before I can start playing. If I play my keyboards early, the connected sound modules will make a nasty sound, like I've played 300 notes all at once. It's almost like a flood of MIDI notes fires all at once. This sometimes leads to stuck notes.

The Experiment:
I took the computer out of the equation, using Clockworks to create a basic setup - every keyboard to every other keyboard and module. I then used the K2500 to set up patches on every other keyboard and module, using channelization to play different modules on different keyboards.

The Result:
The MIDI delay was gone. My ability to change from song to song drastically improved. I could actually play immediately after the patch change without any stuck notes or nasty flood of MIDI notes firing all at once.

My Summation:
I'm thinking I have something set up wrong somewhere. It doesn't make sense to me that I would be having this kind of trouble. Does anyone know enough about DP or has maybe experienced a similar situation who might know any possible reasons for the issues I'm experiencing? Oh, a fix would be nice too.

Thanks everyone in advance.

- Jim -

[daniel.sneed]

I've just experienced something in playing live with DP. Maybe it's related to yours, Jquesta :

Within a single sequence, arming a different MIDI track will result in unwanted notes played on a VI (Alphakanal Automat).
But muting this MIDI track will allow me to arm the track and play fine the VI live. Arming track is now silent.

Just to figure the setup :
- Multi record mode
- MIDI patch thru
- Auto channelize
- Play back in background
- Monitor thru effects

[Schweats]

I am curious to know from all who are using a computer w/DP for live use,
using the event list window , where is each program change and any CC data entered
into each track and how many clock ticks apart is each event.
IOW, If your seq starts at 1|1|000 , what event is first and at what clock tick does it appear ?

Does it make any difference if
a) every program change begins at 1|1|001
b) every CC7 is at 1|1|002
c) every CC10 is at 1|1|003
d) every pitch bend is at 1|1|004 set to zero
and any other commands you want each machine to be initially set to

FWIW … I have Korg (and had a number of pieces of ) gear … their architecture is comprised of single
programs (or patches) and Multi(s) or collections of programs. I have upon occasion used the sys-ex command
to change from one mode to the other (single program to a Multi or vice versa) However, after inserting the sys-ex command to initiate that change , if a program change command or any other CC data command is inserted, it must be later in time as the machine kind of "kluges" up. So , I'll set a sys-ex command at 1|1|000,
then begin inserting the program change , CC7, CC10, PB and any other commands at say 1|1|010 or even 15
or 20
Maybe this has some bearing in how one sets the commands in time using DP…… maybe not

HTH - Schweats

[jquesta]

My data needs are very simple - my program changes are not in the sequence itself, but in the "Default Program" drop down menu. 80% of my use of DP for live is the ability to send patch change data and route my MIDI signal - I'm not hitting "play" (although when I DO have a sequence, it sends the patch change information AGAIN, which is another sore point issue for me).

I'm still thinking I have something set wrong, but I haven't found anything when going through the menu. It's so clunky the way it works at the moment - I can't believe it's supposed to be that way...

[magicd]

Last month my band played a gig in Las Vegas. When my keyboards made it back to Boston, the old Alesis QS was trashed. I mean really broken. So I had to get something new. I'm up and running on my laptop with DP and it is a killer rig!

The secret is Plogue Bidule. I run Bidule as an Audio Unit plug-in.


Here's the signal flow:
The "Bidule Plugin_1" is the MIDI input into the Instrument track. As you can see from the Tracks Window, I have a MIDI track, record enabled, going into the Bidule instrument track.

Inside Bidule, MIDI goes to the MIDI Switcher. The MIDI switcher passes the MIDI signal to an output based on an incoming patch change message. I can send simple patch change messages from my keyboard controller and that will switch the output of this Bidule element.

From the switcher I go to the sound modules. You can see I have B4II on patch change zero. When I send patch change 1, MIDI goes to Mach Five. My controller is transmitting on MIDI channel 1, so I trigger the sound in Mach Five that is assigned to channel 1, which happens to be horns.

Patch change 2 switches to Elektrik Piano.
Patch change 3 switches to Ticky Clav.

Patch change 4 sends the incoming MIDI to a channel remapper. The channel remapper converts incoming MIDI on channel 1 to channel 2. That signal is sent to MachFive. Mach Five hosts the strings on channel 2.

You can see that I use a MIDI splitter to send incoming MIDI to two sounds to get a brass and string layer.

Every time I use this setup I tweak it some more. Bidule is amazing software! You can do all sorts of things such as splits, MIDI filters, effects, etc.

When I switch to B4, the sliders on my controller keyboard work the drawbars. I have also mapped out control for distortion.
When I switch to piano, the same knob now controls delay depth.
When I switch top the Pro-53 synth, the knob controls filter cutoff.

I have a knob on my controller that is mapped to an Aux track in DP. The aux track feeds to the Master Fader. This way the Master Fader is set at one fixed output volume. I use a limiter on the Master Fader.
The Aux track mapped from the controller acts as my overall live keyboard volume.

What I'll be doing next is building out the file for my guitar signal path. In my current band I'm playing guitar and keys.

In addition to guitar and the computer based sounds, I also use a Korg MS2000 synth.

I use an UltraLite Mk3 audio interface connected to a Macbook Pro. The output of the MS2000 goes through a Banshee talkbox and into the UltraLite. The UltraLite passes that signal to output, which goes to my monitor setup. I use a limiter in CueMix FX on the output of the UltraLite to control clipping. I'm also processing the input of the MS2000 with EQ and compression.

Output from the computer is mixed with signal from the MS2000.

In rehearsal, I've been plugging my guitar into a ZBox, and then the UltraLite. I run the guitar signal through DP and add my effects. As a 30+ year player of guitars through amps, this is a big switch for me. I'm taking my time to get the sounds I need.

But the sum total is that the gear I have to carry is reduced considerably. I also have pretty much any sounds I want, and total control over those sounds. Once I get the guitar happening, I won't have to carry a guitar amp around, and I can send direct signal into the PA.

Buffer in DP set to 128.

Dave