Gating vocals - do you use outboard gear or a DP plug?

[Indellable]

I am running DP5 with a Focusrite Voicemaster Platinum pre and a B.L.U.E bluebird mic. I love the sound I am getting from the vocals but am getting way too much bleed IMO from the instrumental on vocal tracks. Its not from my monitors b/c my control room is seperated by 2 sets of sliding glass doors and even if I turn off the monitors it still comes through, which leaves the headphones. I switched headphones in the mic room to some Synheiser HDs which sound great and are better in terms of bleeding than what I had before, but I think I still need a gate. If anyone uses a DP plug for gating vocals, any advice would be appreciated. Are you using the one on the Dynamics plug? Any reccomended settings to start off with for vocals?

If you are using a plug for gating, do you apply it to each vocal track or a buss? I bus almost all vocals where I add reverb, would I apply it there?

Thanks.

[Armageddon]

When I record vocals, I absolutely don't do anything to the input beyond getting good levels, getting optimal mic placement and eliminating any noise source, like refrigerators, central air, fluorescent lighting, earphone leakage (always use closed-cup earphones and, under any circumstances, don't let your vocalist take them off), etc. I don't even roll off the low end. This way, I have the raw waveform I can always go back to if I change my mind about something. I always put the gate first in my track insert chain and then tweak the cutoff envelope/noise floor so nothing is getting removed but the background or whatever unfortunate noise wound up making its way into the recording -- this is something else you want to keep in mind when deciding to gate during recording or during mixing, since, if you set your gate wrong during recording, you won't get whatever information you chopped off back.

I was confused by your statement about bussing vocals; did you mean that you send your vocals to a common reverb bus on an auxiliary channel, like a traditional mixer setup? You always want to put your gate plug on a per-track basis as an insert plug, it's the only way it works properly.

[Indellable]

Thats exactly what I meant by the bus. Thanks for the insight, I will give it a shot.

[crduval]

The DP Masterworks gate plug-in does a good job, and it can be keyed via MIDI which is a neat feature. Give it a try if you still need something.

You can always chop the bleed out of the vocal track itself. I do this a lot when I do b/u vocals, since I like to stack them using Polar - the bleed piles up pretty fast.

[arion]

I would never extra process a vocal track only because of a little headphone spill, if it is not a capella. Maximum manually if I want a perfect clean track. ( But I don't want it, life is too short to spend it staring at the monitor . )

[dirty penguin]

The strip silence command is a nice tool as well....

If you're tracking vocals with a compressor, you might be adding volume to the headphone bleed during spots without vocals. Something to ponder perhaps.

[newrigel]

The DP Masterworks gate plug-in does a good job, and it can be keyed via MIDI which is a neat feature. Give it a try if you still need something.

You can always chop the bleed out of the vocal track itself. I do this a lot when I do b/u vocals, since I like to stack them using Polar - the bleed piles up pretty fast.

++1 Works great here, I sometimes like to keep the inflectional aspirations etc. so you can set it up to catch everything you want or not.

[Phil O]

...I love the sound I am getting from the vocals but am getting way too much bleed IMO from the instrumental on vocal tracks...

I'm surprised at this. Are those headphones open back? I've been using mostly Sony MDR 7506's for tracking vocals and I never have had a bleed problem. If I turn the gain on a vocal track way up, I can just make out some headphone sounds but it's never enough to warrant gating. Most of the noise problems I've had with vocals is coughs, sneezes, snorts and the like. Those I prefer to edit out using automation. I'm not about to let a plugin make those decisions for me. My advise would be to look at the source of the bleed (I'm assuming it's the headphones). Fix it there and you won't be messing with gates on vocals (yuk).

If you absolutely need a gate, +1 on the Masterworks gate.

Phil

[bongo_x]

I don't gate, just manually edit out the bleed. Usually there isn't that many spots. It would usually take longer to get the gate working properly than to edit it.

bb

[Indellable]

I'm using Synheiser HD 380s - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Sennheiser- ... 1427306.gc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be honest, it may just be me being overly sensitive - or maybe even a bit bored. Now that my studio is looking/feeling and pretty much sounding like I want - I am probably just looking to fine tune or tinker with some stuff. I had a professional engineer over a while back and when i asked him he thought it was completely acceptable based on some of the songs he works on. I record a lot of Hip Hop - it seems as though most MCs like to hear a beat extremely loud in their headphones. Plus I used to DJ so I used accapellas. Artists will bring accapellas from another studio and they sound so damn clean - absoutely no bleed whatsosver. I talked to the owner and he said he uses an outboard gate - not sure if he is using it pre or post though. I'd imagine post is better since, as one person mentioned, you can never get it back once its gone if you do it pre.

I will definitely look into the MW Gate and see how it works. Thanks.

[HCMarkus]

While a variety of arguments can be made for compressing a signal on the way in, there is no reason of which I am aware that you would want to gate an input. The risk that a desired sound may be gated out makes this a no-brainer for me. Fix it in the mix if it is a real problem.

[Armageddon]

I swear by Sennheiser HD 280 Pros, which not only provide the best earphone isolation I've ever dealt with, but are the cheapest "flat response/high volume" studio phones I've ever used. Unfortunately, when I was recording my album, I had no idea my vocalist was doing the "one earcup pressed to her head" maneuver until I got my tracks back to my project studio and started editing waveforms. I had to use noise reduction software AND gate the hell out of the vocals to clean them up (and, isolated, you can still kind of hear the instruments on the vocal track, which are now completely out of whack with the placement of the vocals in relation to the actual mix).

The trick with gating is to get a decent cutoff slope that sounds natural. Nine times out of ten, unless you're compressing the vocals going in or getting a real consistent response via microphone placement, etc. (or happen to be riding levels), your average levels are going to be well below what you'll have them be by the time you've finished editing. Normalizing, editing out peaks with a waveform editor and cutting out the silences will all contribute to the final levels of that track BEFORE compressing and mixer levels. I don't even cut off silences until I have everything else edited, my gate plug adjusted and a compressor/de-esser in place. Sometimes, adding a gate post-edit can cause weird clicks or unwanted sounds, even if it's just playing silences or cuts. Once I know the waveform is in its "final state", I can adjust the cutoff slope and noise floor, thus letting me be able to leave on trails and breaths and keep everything from sounding choppy.

[jlaudon]

Really good stuff, all the ideas and input (he he).

One thing to check is if the vocalist is wearing glasses (or in the case of hip hop guys, sunglasses ) - this lifts the headphone earpiece off the head and causes bleed (my problem, as I wear glasses, and have to see lyrics).

Minor bleed isn't something to really worry about unless there is something in the music that won't be there later (like a click track).

[newrigel]

I'm using Synheiser HD 380s - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Sennheiser- ... 1427306.gc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be honest, it may just be me being overly sensitive - or maybe even a bit bored. Now that my studio is looking/feeling and pretty much sounding like I want - I am probably just looking to fine tune or tinker with some stuff. I had a professional engineer over a while back and when i asked him he thought it was completely acceptable based on some of the songs he works on. I record a lot of Hip Hop - it seems as though most MCs like to hear a beat extremely loud in their headphones. Plus I used to DJ so I used accapellas. Artists will bring accapellas from another studio and they sound so damn clean - absoutely no bleed whatsosver. I talked to the owner and he said he uses an outboard gate - not sure if he is using it pre or post though. I'd imagine post is better since, as one person mentioned, you can never get it back once its gone if you do it pre.

I will definitely look into the MW Gate and see how it works. Thanks.

Sounds like you need to take some recording 101.

[Armageddon]

That's another thing you need to be careful with: how much volume is going to your vocalist's headphones. If it's too low, the vocalist usually sings more quietly to mentally try and match the volume in the cans. If it's too high, no matter how good of a seal your headphones have, you'll get some headphone bleed. Right after I get levels and placement, I usually run the instrument track without the vocalist singing and make sure I'm not getting bleed from the phones (or as little as possible). Well ... I do that NOW. I learned to check the hard way.

If you're working with a hip-hop artist (or especially a rapper) who needs to hear a beat prominently in the monitor, try turning up the whole mix to an optimal volume that isn't leaking out of the phones, yet loud enough for the talent to comfortably perform to, then dial back everything but the drums and bass. In fact, most personal headphone monitor systems work this way: you have several stems being distributed to a personal mixer that allows the performer to turn up or down certain parts of the mix. The only problem with this is, you could wind up with a performer cranking up monitor volumes to the point where there's headphone leakage. I prefer having ultimate control over the levels when it's a solo performer, especially a vocalist, and then having a personal mixing system for a band recording all parts simultaneously, where leakage isn't an issue.

Plus I used to DJ so I used accapellas. Artists will bring accapellas from another studio and they sound so damn clean - absoutely no bleed whatsosver. I talked to the owner and he said he uses an outboard gate - not sure if he is using it pre or post though. I'd imagine post is better since, as one person mentioned, you can never get it back once its gone if you do it pre.

I'm sure it was used post -- I've never heard of anyone gating inputs. Also, the studio environment was probably a factor. If it was a pro studio with a properly isolated recording booth, and the recording was handled by a professional engineer, there was likely little or no noise to gate in the first place.