NI Goes Abbey Road

[David Polich]

I'm still stymied as to why NI discontinued B4, which many, many professionals still swear by as the de facto virtual tonewheel organ. It's an amazing VI! For that matter, I can't imagine why they'd discontinue Pro-53, which, for my money, was a much better Prophet-5 emulation than Arturia's. Bandstand, Acoustik Piano and Electrik Piano, on the other hand, I can kind of see. A GM-based VI probably doesn't have a lot of place in today's "everybody has a million VIs" environment, and Acoustik Piano probably faces a dearth of competition from higher-end piano VIs, same goes for Electrik. I still don't see why they can't just fold those into the Kontakt library proper, or at least keep them around as part of the "Komplete" package, which would increase the package's value immeasurably. And while I love FM8, it's obvious they abandoned its original purpose as a virtual DX-7 and are just pushing it as a more-generic FM synth ala Rob Papen's synths. By abandoning the vintage emulation aesthetic, it winds up comparing somewhat unfavorably to the higher-end (or even the more bargain-rate) soft synths out there. For arpeggiated synth sounds, any one of the three Papen synths just blow it away.

Akoustik Piano has been re-packaged as separate Kore-compatible instruments
available from NI's website. I agree that dropping B4II and Pro-53 made no
sense at all. I think FM8 is pretty cool if you treat it as its own thing and not a virtual DX7.

The Abbey Road drums sound nice, but as an owner of BFD2 I don't need them,
as there is already a Ringo Ludwig kit in that. I do think the Abbey Road
drums are overpriced - 120 bucks for two kits is too much. Methinks there will be a price drop in the future.

[zed]

The Abbey Road drums sound nice, but as an owner of BFD2 I don't need them,
as there is already a Ringo Ludwig kit in that. I do think the Abbey Road
drums are overpriced - 120 bucks for two kits is too much. Methinks there will be a price drop in the future.

No comparison. You can hear the magic of the vintage EMI gear, microphones and analog tape. The Abbey Road drums sound like Ringo being recorded in Abbey Road Studio 2, and the BFD2 Ludwig kit sounds like a Ludwig sampled instrument that is okay, but nothing special or hyper-realistic.

If you had both products and played along to a Beatles album, you would hear a tangible difference.

It may only be 2 drum kits, but the amount of detail makes up for that. The full kits take about 2 minutes to load. There are lite versions as well. I was actually floored by what I consider to be a low price! But I don't see this as "just another sampled Ludwig kit". It is much more than that.

[mhschmieder]

Zed, I agree, but ironically have probably concluded that I prefer the BFD Ludwig kit, which is more modern-sounding than the Abbey Road kits.

I did a lot of soul-searching about this, and also didn't allow myself to compare to the still-not-used Fab Four from EWQL as I don't want to be reminded that I probably wasted my money on that library.

Ultimately, while the Beatles Mono Box blew me away, it is what it is for its time, and I'm not sure I would want to deliberately go for that vintage recording vibe, which is a bit distorted sounding. The Abbey Road Ludwig kit nails that sound and has almost as much detail as BFD.

If the price comes down later, maybe I'll consider it. But I think I tend towards non-vintage recording quality using Old Skool techniques. That is, I'm a stickler for proper mics and placement, but prefer transparent signal paths. And my favourite mics are rather vintage.

[mhschmieder]

In response to the O.T. earlier reply, I made my peace with FM8 early last year and sold all my Rob Papen synths. I no longer try to use FM8 to emulate DX7 presets, which FM7 did a better job of, as by now I have found I prefer other sound sources for most of those sounds.

For the more advanced usage of FM synthesis, I feel FM8 has it all over the Rob Papen synths, as being much more musical and intuitive and also doing a better job of taking the sort of pads, percussive transient attacks, and sound effects that the DX7 excelled at, to the next level.

NI has done a good job of not making the extensions of waveform types and stereo/clean sound as well as SY33/77-like morphing, be "in your face" if you want to just do basic DX7-like programming. I find its sound engine much warmer and more organic than any of the RP synths.

I also suspect FM9 will take it to the next level and add the remaining advantages of the FS1r, which I reluctantly sold due to its lack of gig-oriented features such as user voices and single-voice performances.

So I do view FM8 as the ONLY true vintage FM synth emulation, it's just that they are moving beyond the DX7 towards some of the later models, which in my view were better than the original DX7 series anyway.

The other FM synths out there, just use FM synthesis as one of many flavours in an otherwise electronica-oriented modern synth.

[zed]

Zed, I agree, but ironically have probably concluded that I prefer the BFD Ludwig kit, which is more modern-sounding than the Abbey Road kits.

If you are making your comparison based on the audio demos on the NI website, it is not a fair comparison. You have a lot of control over the sound of the Abbey Road kits pieces depending on home much of the room and mono (and stereo) overheads that you include in the mix.

Ultimately, while the Beatles Mono Box blew me away, it is what it is for its time, and I'm not sure I would want to deliberately go for that vintage recording vibe, which is a bit distorted sounding. The Abbey Road Ludwig kit nails that sound and has almost as much detail as BFD.

If the price comes down later, maybe I'll consider it. But I think I tend towards non-vintage recording quality using Old Skool techniques. That is, I'm a stickler for proper mics and placement, but prefer transparent signal paths. And my favourite mics are rather vintage.

Honestly, there is no "distortion" in the sound at all if you mean something that would give the samples an essence of LoFi. They sound like clean, top-quality recorded samples and just have that special magic that happens when recorded onto tape and in a great room. I could never get my BFD kits or any other drum library kits to have quite this dynamic quality.

To me, the "vintage" tone is not that it sounds old or outdated... it is just that it sounds "right" to my ears because it matches the kind of drums sounds on my favorite recordings of all time. And not just the Beatles. For my tastes I would take a '60s drum track over 99% of the drum tracks that I have ever heard from the decades that followed.

With these Abbey Road drums I perform the simplest part with my fingers, and even make some mistakes... but when I listen back to it, it doesn't sound like I am playing a MIDI kit. It sounds like I'm in Studio 2 recording a track on Ringo's kit while the Beatles are taking a break. And it is not that I want to create tracks that sound just like the Beatles, even though it is no secret I am a serious fan. I just want to create tracks which can mesmerize me with the same sort of sonic nuances. I am very grateful for this product, and will probably end up using at least some of the kit pieces (and/or percussion) in every project from this day forward.

Yabba Dabba Doo!

[Tobor]

With these Abbey Road drums I perform the simplest part with my fingers, and even make some mistakes... but when I listen back to it, it doesn't sound like I am playing a MIDI kit. It sounds like I'm in Studio 2 recording a track on Ringo's kit while the Beatles are taking a break. And it is not that I want to create tracks that sound just like the Beatles, even though it is no secret I am a serious fan. I just want to create tracks which can mesmerize me with the same sort of sonic nuances. I am very grateful for this product, and will probably end up using at least some of the kit pieces (and/or percussion) in every project from this day forward.

I guess those latest SR Group Buy Drums didn't stay on the stove too long!

I listened to the demos on the NI and those two kits do sound very good.....

NI's just trying to make me upgrade to Kontakt 4.

Tobor

[zed]

I guess those latest SR Group Buy Drums didn't stay on the stove too long!

I don't regret that purchase, since it came with so much stuff... not the least of which are some fabulous drum sounds. There are some toms sets (and numerous kit pieces) from the Group Buy which will work quite nicely with the Abbey Road drums. The trick is to be familiar with what you've got and to take note of your favorites so that you can audition them when you need something a little bit different.

The other nice thing about the GB was that it gave you all those impulse responses. And even though it was not allowed to be officially announced, some of those studio IRs are taken from the same room as the product being described in this thread... so you can really make the GB kits fit in with the 60s drums, if you wish to.

[NealF]

I'm real interested in the Abbey Road drums. But I'm not on an Intel Mac. I've got a G5. And I tried to upgrade my free Kontakt Player (3.5) to the 4 which is what they say you need for the drums.
When I upgraded I got the message that it won't work on an non Intel machine.

Does this mean I can't use the Abbey Road drums till I get a newer computer? That wouldn't be nice. I want those @#%^& drums!

[noah330]

I just wish Kontakt player had a MIDI remap feature so I could use my electronic kit

[mhschmieder]

Yes, you need an Intel Mac. I might consider these once I get a new computer, as they do seem good value. No rush though as there's no early buyer discount anyway, and usually NI has an annual sale on libraries towards September and/or December.

[Shooshie]

I'm still stymied as to why NI discontinued B4, which many, many professionals still swear by as the de facto virtual tonewheel organ.

If you happen to have MachFive2, there's a great B3 sim in there. Complete with sliders and even the percussive attack setting. I can't compare it to NI's B4, because I never saw B4 before. But having played an actual B3 before, it was cool to have the sliders, and it sounded convincing enough for my ears, which admittedly tend to be pretty forgiving of organ sounds. And besides; if you happen to already have MachFive.2, this B3 be free. [ ewww... sorry]


Shoosh

[Frodo]

I guess those latest SR Group Buy Drums didn't stay on the stove too long!

I don't regret that purchase, since it came with so much stuff... not the least of which are some fabulous drum sounds. There are some toms sets (and numerous kit pieces) from the Group Buy which will work quite nicely with the Abbey Road drums. The trick is to be familiar with what you've got and to take note of your favorites so that you can audition them when you need something a little bit different.

The other nice thing about the GB was that it gave you all those impulse responses. And even though it was not allowed to be officially announced, some of those studio IRs are taken from the same room as the product being described in this thread... so you can really make the GB kits fit in with the 60s drums, if you wish to.

I wholly agree, Zed.

It doesn't take much to wear out a drum library-- less than many think. The Group Buy will come in handy for a great many purposes, but I have the Abbey Road kits on my radar in a big way even as I'm enjoying the Group Buy kits. Those Abbey Road kits won't suit every need either, so there is enough cred' remaining for things like BDF (full or nano), DrumCore, or any other third-party product, or for any compatible expansion.

If one does a wide variety of musical genres-- even if those genres are limited to 40 years of rock/rock-and-roll or any drumkit-oriented music, then there is no such thing as "enough".

[NealF]

Rats! They look like just what I needed now. Oh well, someday I'll have an Intel Mac.

[zed]

It doesn't take much to wear out a drum library-- less than many think. The Group Buy will come in handy for a great many purposes, but I have the Abbey Road kits on my radar in a big way even as I'm enjoying the Group Buy kits. Those Abbey Road kits won't suit every need either, so there is enough cred' remaining for things like BDF (full or nano), DrumCore, or any other third-party product, or for any compatible expansion.

If one does a wide variety of musical genres-- even if those genres are limited to 40 years of rock/rock-and-roll or any drumkit-oriented music, then there is no such thing as "enough".

I would strongly recommend jumping in the Drum Masters 2 Group Buy that Squids will be announcing later today. I have Drum Masters 1, and this is all those same Multitrack and Stereo kits and grooves plus all the new scripting and new material added. It is an awesome collection of fabulous drum sounds which are interchangeable with all the stuff you bought in the previous Ultimate Studio Drums Group Buy.

Rats! They look like just what I needed now. Oh well, someday I'll have an Intel Mac.

Yeah, that's unfortunate.

I have an Intel Mac, but I don't have the full version of Kontakt 4. Since these Abbey Road drums don't work in my full version of Kontakt 3, I have use them in the Kontakt 4 Player. And unfortunately that means that certain editing parameters are unavailable, which is a serious drag since there is some editing which must be done. I need to break the kit apart, for example, since loading the full kits takes 2-3 minutes and there are no instruments with separated kit pieces. I want to split the kicks from the snares from the cymbals so that I can use these kit pieces interchangeably with my other Kontakt drums (particularly the Drum Masters series I mentioned above). There are also a few glaring problems with certain kit pieces being too loud compared with the others, and the only way to fix that would be to get under the hood.

And so now I have to look at buying the Komplete 6 upgrade in order to get the full version of Kontakt 4. It is a drag, since I'm pretty happy with Komplete 5 the way that it stands.

[NealF]

Zed. Do you need an Intel Mac for Drum Masters 2? Where can I find out more about the group buy?