doubling track w/o delay

[robebones]

Its probably something simple i can do for this...but...

When i try copying a vocal track onto another track to double it up...even though it looks like the wav is at the same place, there is a slight delay.

Is there a way to get rid of this delay so it sounds just like the natural voice? Do i need to move it a little using a tool in some way??

[Radiogal]

Duplicate track.
Probably you have a plug on one of the tracks. This can give the delay effect.

[Armageddon]

First of all, you're probably going to want a slight delay. Two of the same exact track, even panned to different locations, will cause phasing problems and will run counter to doubling your vocal track. You can even wind up canceling out reverb and other send effects. A slight shift in sound (not enough to be perceptible as a "delay", more like a "chorus") and maybe a little EQ nudging will keep the sound "separate but equal".

That being said, if you truly want two of the exact same thing, try the Nudge function on your copied track and move it back and forth by a few ticks until the sound lines up. I also go into Sequence Editor with the two tracks side by side, zoom in as much as possible on both tracks without turning them into wavy lines, line up the Start line to a recognizable peak in the waveform on the top layer and just grab the bottom track with the Select tool until I can line up that peak in the top track with the same peak on the bottom track. Play both tracks simultaneously (it should sound phasey) and mute one or the other track. If you can't detect any weird rhythmic anomalies between switching from one track to the other, you nailed it. Unfortunately, it might take a while to get it perfect ...

[philbrown]

If you Shift-drag the soundbite to the second track it won't move in time and automatically be exactly lined up with the first. The easiest way is to have the new track directly under the original.

EDIT: Sorry I missed Radiogal's post - her way is easier.

The other info Armageddon gave about phasing and such all still applies though. The very best way to double tracks IMO is to literally double them - cut 2 tracks. Sometimes you can use a decent outtake and back off the volume add effects and get away with that for doubling. But just copying a track and panning left and right will probably not give you what you're after.

Cheers
Phil

[Armageddon]

People seem to do the same thing with guitar parts, in that they'll just copy the same rhythm guitar part to a second track and not understand why they're not getting a "doubled" effect like you hear on commercial recordings.

You can also try simply inserting a mono-to-stereo chorus plug on your original mono vocal track. This will both make the track stereo and pretty much give you the effect that most people use to thicken a vocal track. If you keep the effect at a minimum, it will sound like doubled vocals, and you won't have to do any track editing, to boot. Waves has the best plugs for this sort of thing, but even DP's stock chorus plug will do the trick. I normally do what Phil suggested, though, I just record a second vocal track or use a second take, and even then, I'll nudge one side forward a little to open up the stereo effect.

[nick danger]

The very best way to double tracks IMO is to literally double them - cut 2 tracks.

If you record multiple takes, and then comp them, in addition to the comp take made up of your favorite snippets, make another consisting of your second favorite. Mix the favorite somewhat out front. Apply other effects to taste.

[Shooshie]

I don't know if this could be related to your problem or not, but it has been known to cause timing issues. Read the fine print carefully on this preference. We're talking about the "Sync Recorded MIDI to Patch Thru" option.

[Armageddon]

I don't know if this could be related to your problem or not, but it has been known to cause timing issues. Read the fine print carefully on this preference. We're talking about the "Sync Recorded MIDI to Patch Thru" option.

Even with audio? I've noticed a weird anomaly over the years where DP tends to add about a second or two to bounced audio, and then truncate that same amount off of the tail end of the waveform, so that the time actually matched the unbounced file, but there was definitely a timing issue. It should be pointed out, though, that this was waaaaaaay back in DP 3. I've actually ported MIDI track files from Vision DSP 4.2.2 on my iBook over to DP 6.03 on my MacBook, re-recorded those files with a VI, processed the resulting audio with UB plugs and ported them back into Vision with no timing problems whatsoever, or, if there were timing problems, I haven't yet noticed them.

[Shooshie]

I don't know if this could be related to your problem or not, but it has been known to cause timing issues. Read the fine print carefully on this preference. We're talking about the "Sync Recorded MIDI to Patch Thru" option.

Even with audio?

Not sure about that (thus the disclaimer in my post). I've definitely experienced delay issues due to this setting, but you may be right if you think it's MIDI only. Thinking through it, I don't know why this setting exists. Seems that you'd want the timing correct no matter where the sound or MIDI signal went, and I'm not sure why we have to choose this. But I remember figuring it out once, and it made sense then, so it probably still makes sense. But I don't know if it affects audio sync.

Shoosh

[TheHopiWay]

WARNING!!!! Old School Diatribe Below WARNING!!!


If at all possible actually double the track.
While chorus effects, delays and panning can create an approximation of doubling and a nice effect, true doubling has randomness about it that's hard to achieve with plug-ins or track manipulation.

A cool effect vocally is to use different vocal take to drive the reverb or delay on a voice at 100% wet while featuring a different take altogether as the lead vox.

OK, I have to get back to 1972 now. If I spend to much time in the future I get confused.

[Shooshie]

+1 Hopi!

[burn em]

WARNING!!!! Old School Diatribe Below WARNING!!!


If at all possible actually double the track.
While chorus effects, delays and panning can create an approximation of doubling and a nice effect, true doubling has randomness about it that's hard to achieve with plug-ins or track manipulation.

A cool effect vocally is to use different vocal take to drive the reverb or delay on a voice at 100% wet while featuring a different take altogether as the lead vox.

OK, I have to get back to 1972 now. If I spend to much time in the future I get confused.

Not at all 'back to 1972' mate! Too many people have forgotten this stuff. More please!

[cbergm7210]

The very best way to double tracks IMO is to literally double them - cut 2 tracks.

If you record multiple takes, and then comp them, in addition to the comp take made up of your favorite snippets, make another consisting of your second favorite. Mix the favorite somewhat out front. Apply other effects to taste.

+1

[Armageddon]

WARNING!!!! Old School Diatribe Below WARNING!!!


If at all possible actually double the track.
While chorus effects, delays and panning can create an approximation of doubling and a nice effect, true doubling has randomness about it that's hard to achieve with plug-ins or track manipulation.

A cool effect vocally is to use different vocal take to drive the reverb or delay on a voice at 100% wet while featuring a different take altogether as the lead vox.

OK, I have to get back to 1972 now. If I spend to much time in the future I get confused.

Sounds like a very cool chorus effect! I agree; if you're trying to get a nice, thick vocal sound, like multiple vocalists are singing lead, do two or more "good" takes and use a different take to lay over the first. You can even have them harmonize in spots to emphasize multiple singers, or give one an echo-y hall reverb and the other a more traditional catch-all hall reverb.

Not sure about that (thus the disclaimer in my post). I've definitely experienced delay issues due to this setting, but you may be right if you think it's MIDI only. Thinking through it, I don't know why this setting exists. Seems that you'd want the timing correct no matter where the sound or MIDI signal went, and I'm not sure why we have to choose this. But I remember figuring it out once, and it made sense then, so it probably still makes sense. But I don't know if it affects audio sync.

The only thing that sounds close is that he may have an effect inserted on the vocal track. If the track is duplicated, will it still have its effects or will the track be running on a new channel that doesn't have any effects on it? Maybe try running the project in real time only, then dupicate the track.

[SixStringGeek]

I thought I'd mention that melodyne does have an option for "randomizing" a track that isn't quite as good as a second track, but is better than just delay and chorus.