MIDI editing corrupted in 7.02 and 7.1?RESOLVED

[williemyers]

This is piggy-backing off of Neal's report of "doubled MIDI notes" after installing DP 7.
I've just in stalled 7 - first .02 and then .1 and then back to .02 - all on a 10.6.2 partition. I only had some remixes to do, so I wasn't inputting any new MIDI data.
After reading Neal's post, and needing to start a new project, I decided to have look for myself. First off, Neal, I'm wondering if in fact you were actually getting "doubled notes" or if, as I've found, DP 7 seems to do a sort of an "auto-copy" when you grab a MIDI note and attempt to drag it to another spot. That is, the note you grab does move to where you want it, *but* a copy of the original note, in the original location is still there!
Am I clear on that?
And the more you drag, the more copies it makes, until it freezes/crashes.
I don't *THINK* there's an "auto-copy MIDI notes" feature in 7, if there is, it needs to be turned OFF asap.
Your results may vary, but here's what I got testing, again all on OS 10.6.2 and MOTU MIDI driver 1.4.3:
DP 7.1 - copies notes,
DP 7.02 - copies notes,
DP 6.03 - does *not* copy notes.
Be interested to hear if any/all of you have getting similiar results?
This is a no-brainer for me, back to 6.03 and back to work.

[Shooshie]

I've done a lot of editing in DP 7.1, and it has not exhibited that behavior at all. (yet) I trust you and believe that it's happening as you describe, but I have no explanation for it at this time except to say that it's not a solid bug. I cannot reproduce the behavior you're describing. (thank goodness!)

Shooshie

[zed]

And the more you drag, the more copies it makes, until it freezes/crashes.

That is some corruption happening on your system, and not the way DP is working for most. I have actually experienced what you have described a couple of times over the years, when using DP (in versions previous to DP7).

It should be something that goes away as soon as you restart your computer. If it doesn't, then I would reinstall DP7. Those are the kind of behaviors that seem to happen when DP has be unsuccessful at loading everything it needs before you start working. If that is happening, even after restarting your computer, then probably something went screwy during your install of DP.

My guess, anyway.

If it is actually happening for you with 7.02 and 7.1, then there must be some common factor causing the issue. Either a conflicting plugin or VI, or something that DP7 shares between versions (like the AU cache or something).

[williemyers]

hey, thanks, all. it's reassuring to hear from a couple of you that you've checked it on your systems without problems. I really didn't think MOTU would release a version with such a glaring mistake and I'm pretty sure now that it's something on my system - some corrupted file that, as Zed said, 7.02 and 7.1 share, but not 6.03. I'll do total reinstalls tomorrow and report back.
thanks again

[Kubi]

Before doing a total re-install, remember to first try trashing prefs. May save you a lot of work. Just sayin'

[adriano]

Hi williemyers,
No issues of that kind on this end and +1 for what Kubi said in his last post.

[williemyers]

o.k., for those interested, an update...

this a.m., I ran another series of tests on 6.03, 7.02 and 7.1. I ran the tests using (for input) ; (a.)two different Mac mice, (b.) two different MacPro kybds., (c.) three different MIDI kybds (a Kurzweil midiboard, an MAudio Oxygen8 and a Korg Microboard). In each case, it's all on the same system: MacPro 8-core, ton o' RAM, OS 10.6.2.

I began by running YASU and dumping all DP pref & cache files.

I opened a new 6.03 file - the simplest I could create - one MIDI track, no audio tracks, no VI's, no plugs, etc.:
(1.) I put the MIDI track in to record, rolled and played in a single note "C". Hit stop.
(2.) Opened the Event List and, sure enough, there's just one "C" showing. Opened the graphic editor for that track and see the "C". For the sake of discussion, let's just say that it was on Bar5/beat 1.
(3.) Grabbed it with the cursor and drug it to the right, say 2 beats, and released the mouse. As expected, it parked on Bar5/beat 3 and it was still the only note showing in the editor (or the Event list).
(4.) I hit playback and a single "C" played back on Bar 5/beat3.
(5.) Done.

I shut down 6.03 and opened 7.02. I repeated all of the steps above and got these results:
(3.) Grabbed it with the cursor and drug it to the right, say 2 beats and released the mouse. I'm now seeing *2* "C"'s, the one on Bar5/beat 3 that I've dragged there and the original one on Bar 5/beat 1.
(4.) It's not a graphical anomoly, because when I hit playback, two "C"'s play back.
(5.) Moving on....

Exactly the same steps with 7.1, exactly the same results.

Then I did "uninstalls" of both 7.02 and 7.1. Then a complete reinstall of 7.02, followed by YASU.
Repeated the steps above for "7.02" and, again, the same results.

I can't describe this any better than to say that it's acting like an "auto-copy", whereby it's copying any/all MIDI notes. just as though the Option Key where held down...which it's not. This is not a "multiple notes on input" issue resolved above, this is something altogether different.

So again, many thanks for the suggestions/recommendations. For the time being, I can keep working in 6.03 and will be on the phone to MOTU first thing Monday a.m. to see if they have any answers. *Really* hope they can tell me something other than "reinstall Snow Leopard"...that would be a non-runner.

[zed]

... just as though the Option Key where held down...which it's not.

That's very weird. But unfortunately it probably is an OS issue. Reinstalling Snow Leopard might not be a big problem. It probably doesn't erase your user files... but I would check that first.

Regarding the option key, I have had a strange issue ever since I got my Intel Mac where the option key when used in DP commands requires pressing the commands TWICE before the action will be executed. A bit of a nuisance. Something up with the option key and DP.

[Shooshie]

Do you have any mouse-button reassignment extensions? Like USB-Overdrive? Could there be something that is sending the wrong messages to DP when you push the mouse buttons?

Shoosh

[Bennie Sims]

I hope I didn't double post as I try to answer this again. I think the mouse is acting as an input device such as the pencil found in the tool bar. I suggest turning off the tools if that is possible or opening them and toggling the pencil tool on and off and see what happens. I am guessing but it seems to make since to me.

[williemyers]

Do you have any mouse-button reassignment extensions? Like USB-Overdrive?

nope

Could there be something that is sending the wrong messages to DP when you push the mouse buttons? Shoosh

a good thought, but I can't think of anything that I've got that would be doing that. btw, I'm actually using a Kennsington TurboMouse trackball that I've sucessfully used for years. but in this a.m.'s tests, I did the tests both with the trackball and with a Mac mouse, just to make sure...no diff.

I think the mouse is acting as an input device such as the pencil found in the tool bar. I suggest turning off the tools if that is possible or opening them and toggling the pencil tool on and off and see what happens.

Bennie, that's very interesting - the idea of the pencil tool somehow locked on and interacting with my mouse clix - but I gave it a go and no joy. That is, same problem ("auto-copy") whether the pencil, or any, tools were off or on.

and fwiw, an additional - and I'd guess related - problem has cropped up. now, when I'm in the tracks window, if I select a block of MIDI data, then do option-drag to copy it, I see the "2 fingers" and drag the data to the right tothe place I want to copy it to. but when I release the mouse, *no* copied data-block and my cursor changes to a magnifying glass.
hmmm...

[Shooshie]

Ok, you've definitely got a stuck Option Key. I don't know how it's doing it, but something has caused your option key to stick.

First go to Universal Access in the System Preferences and see if you've got the "sticky" modifier keys turned on. If all that is off, as it normally should be, then maybe you should try a different keyboard. Try different USB ports.

One little test: when this starts happening, click on the desktop in the background. Does DP disappear? If you option click on anything in the Finder, or the background, the active application or window will be hidden as if you used the "Hide Digital Performer" menu.

That would be proof-positive that you've got a stuck Option Key. Universal Access could definitely be the culprit, or a keyboard. If none of the above seems to be the case, then somehow DP is interpreting something else as an Option-Click. I've never seen it do that, but perhaps there is some command that will cause that. I've got no clue if such is the case.

if you narrow this down to only DP, then you should call MOTU and talk to them about it. You've got something interpreting each click as an Option Click, and they need to go through it with you.

Shooshie

[williemyers]

hey Shooshie;many, many thanks in advance. as usual, you've provided a well-thought-out troubleshooting path for isolating a "situation". it's appreciated.
the results:

First go to Universal Access in the System Preferences and see if you've got the "sticky" modifier keys turned on.

everything off (always has been)

you should try a different keyboard. Try different USB ports.

...pulled out my old G5 kybd. and tried it on 3 diff. USB ports (no USB hubs on this system). same results.

One little test: when this starts happening, click on the desktop in the background. Does DP disappear?

no

If you option click on anything in the Finder, or the background, the active application or window will be hidden as if you used the "Hide Digital Performer" menu.

it does, as expected.

if you narrow this down to only DP,

well, as I mentioned above, DP 7 (.02 and .1) only. DP 6.03 is working exactly as I/you would expect it to.

you should call MOTU and talk to them about it... they need to go through it with you. Shooshie

first thing, Monday a.m.
thanks again

[williemyers]

the good news is, I sorted it out!
the bad news is, I sorted it out!
summary to follow later today....

[zed]

the good news is, I sorted it out!
the bad news is, I sorted it out!
summary to follow later today....

Sounds intriguing. I will definitely be looking forward to your explanation.

I have a feeling that this means you have a hardware issue that must be either be sent out to be repaired or involves an expensive part which you have to purchase. But I am certainly glad that you have figured out the source of your troubles!