Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

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SixStringGeek
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by SixStringGeek »

jlaudon wrote:Another scourge of piracy and the internet.. today a fellow songwriter called me up to chat and commented on how he liked a song I recently did for a UMG singer here in HK. He also mentioned he did a couple songs on the same CD. Later in the day, he emailed links to Youtube versions of the 3 songs. Some jerk put all the songs up there the same the CD was released. I want to go and shove a few CDs down the pirate's throat...

Youtube should be able to 'police' this, as it is widespread, and almost every CD that's released is uploaded there - people aren't downloading pirated songs as much, but are listening to them this way instead.
See, I find this a wee bit contradictory. You want you songs played on the radio, right? Radio is (kind of) free (ignoring that the ad/content ratio, like in TV, has risen to make it pointless). Songs on the radio are promotion for your product. We hope that people hear music and then run out and buy it because they like it so much.

Monty Python launched a YouTube channel last year. Here's the launch announcement:
For 3 years you YouTubers have been ripping us off, taking tens of thousands of our videos and putting them on YouTube. Now the tables are turned. It's time for us to take matters into our own hands.

We know who you are, we know where you live and we could come after you in ways too horrible to tell. But being the extraordinarily nice chaps we are, we've figured a better way to get our own back: We've launched our own Monty Python channel on YouTube.

No more of those crap quality videos you've been posting. We're giving you the real thing - HQ videos delivered straight from our vault.

What's more, we're taking our most viewed clips and uploading brand new HQ versions. And what's even more, we're letting you see absolutely everything for free. So there!

But we want something in return.

None of your driveling, mindless comments. Instead, we want you to click on the links, buy our movies & TV shows and soften our pain and disgust at being ripped off all these years.
So they've taken matters into their own hands and they see youtube as their own personal promotional TV channel for promoting their products. I think this is the right approach. If people bother to pirate you, then they like you. So take the initiative and try to leverage the exposure into a sale.

Key thing about youtube is you can't take it with you. The content can be viewed at the site, embedded on another site (this can be disabled), but not downloaded to your ipod.

Say it with me "youtube is like radio". More to the point, you can pull a bunch of fan demographics and play counts out if it if you are the uploader.
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cuttime
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by cuttime »

This link is legal. I just couldn't resist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by newrigel »

SixStringGeek wrote:
jlaudon wrote:Another scourge of piracy and the internet.. today a fellow songwriter called me up to chat and commented on how he liked a song I recently did for a UMG singer here in HK. He also mentioned he did a couple songs on the same CD. Later in the day, he emailed links to Youtube versions of the 3 songs. Some jerk put all the songs up there the same the CD was released. I want to go and shove a few CDs down the pirate's throat...

Youtube should be able to 'police' this, as it is widespread, and almost every CD that's released is uploaded there - people aren't downloading pirated songs as much, but are listening to them this way instead.
See, I find this a wee bit contradictory. You want you songs played on the radio, right? Radio is (kind of) free (ignoring that the ad/content ratio, like in TV, has risen to make it pointless). Songs on the radio are promotion for your product. We hope that people hear music and then run out and buy it because they like it so much.
YT can... you send in a form and they let you flag away with the "content verification tool". If it's yours it will be removed. But it cost money to have your stuff played on the radio. I've had stuff played free because I know DJ's @ radio stations that I've known for 20+ years and they came to most of my live shows and supported me that way but I'll do my own campaigning for my work... I don't need any help from the kids @ YT he he.
SixStringGeek wrote:If people bother to pirate you, then they like you. So take the initiative and try to leverage the exposure into a sale.
They like me huh? WOW, I just want to meet a few of them friends then!
And how or why would they run out and buy it when these assholes can just extract the audio from YT? It's BAD, BAD, BAD, all the way around for business. If you just give you stuff away why would anyone want to buy it then? You already showed your non tangible...
But the key word in this whole thing is "CONSENT". They weren't given any consent to post it up for you... since when is that helping me? Now they have a means for extraction of the work in it's entirety... not good @ all... oh, but your getting exposure... no your not, your digging your grave (or theirs IMO) :twisted: :twisted:!!!
Last edited by newrigel on Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by newrigel »

FMiguelez wrote:
Something about those 2 statements seems... corrupted?
You have a beef paying $0.99 for a tune, yet you don't mind spending $10,600 dollars for some plug-ins?
Isn't that the truth! :lol: :lol: :lol:
But his music is worth it but others music isn't! :wink:
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by James Steele »

Just wanted to mention for accuracy's sake that there are free tools out there for both Mac and PC for downloading YouTube video to your hard drive, so it's not safe to assume that it is only available streaming. Essentially nearly anything that streams can be captured by someone who expends minimal effort to look for those tools. Not saying it's right, but don't assume streaming is safe.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by Phil O »

Shooshie wrote:My name is Friday.
Dude, you've been watching too much South Park! :lol:

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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by corrupted.dll »

newrigel wrote:FMiguelez wrote:

Something about those 2 statements seems... corrupted?
You have a beef paying $0.99 for a tune, yet you don't mind spending $10,600 dollars for some plug-ins?
Of course I have no problem spending $10,600 for a product that I like and makes my work easier. I've spend hundreds of thousands for my gear, computers and software.
How many good compressors, EQs can you purchase for the money?
What about traveling. Right now I'm in Europe and I had to deliver work. It would be impossible to drag with me my Mac Pro with my outboard gear with my console, never mind the 120/220 power difference...
I'd spend $10K on good power converters.
DP on my laptop with an 828 mk2 and my plugins did the job just fine!
The $10K is well worth it to me.
I think that every situation is different and we all have different needs and priorities.
It's funny because we all argue about the same thing.
I think it's very well stated in this forum!


It's not that I'm cheap about iTunes, but with the given price of $15 - $25 you were supporting related industries. CD manufacturing with silk screening, color separation for insert cards printing, in-store supporting material (posters and POP racks), jewel case manufactures, record stores and we fed many mouths with that $15 - $25.
This model with the price tag supported all of the above.
Do the math.
Now with iTunes we bypass the previously unavoidable expenses and they charge again to my opinion TOO MUCH.
I use iTunes as well and it's not the 99 cents that hurt me financially when I purchase.
I want to know that whatever I buy it's worth its penny and that it supports the industry around it.
It's the same reason I use DP instead of PT HD. All other studios that I've worked at use PT and I think they're overpriced. To score a film and open a QT movie you have to buy the DV Toolkit or another package that contains the DV Toolkit. How about creating an OMF on PT?
You pay a •••• load of money for simple functions that all other DAWs include for free.

KEVORKIAN wrote:According to most reports I have read, iTunes splits the profits 70/30 with the record companies with the record companies keeping 70%.

Seems like the price is fair however I would bet that by the time that 70% trickles down to the artist it's more like 10%. Seems like your beef should be with the Record companies primarily...

I think that iTunes makes different deals for different record companies. I don't think that it's always the case as far as 70/30 split.
Unless they changed their model recently. I've been fortunately out of the "record" business the last few years, but I'm referring to a personal experience where the split was 50/50.
Or it could very well be another record company scam to rip off the artist by overpricing their costs and passing the buck to us.

In the past I argued with the head of a smaller record company regarding this matter and of course they love the fact that they don't have to pay a cent for printing and distributing the material as I mentioned above with the related industries. They're all about making more profit. I agree with making more profit as long as the people who create the product the record companies sell get compensated.
But unfortunately they are the pirates. If you don't audit them annually they will steal and cheat the artists as much as possible.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by KEVORKIAN »

corrupted.dll wrote: I think that iTunes makes different deals for different record companies. I don't think that it's always the case as far as 70/30 split.
Unless they changed their model recently. I've been fortunately out of the "record" business the last few years, but I'm referring to a personal experience where the split was 50/50.
Or it could very well be another record company scam to rip off the artist by overpricing their costs and passing the buck to us.
I don't think iTunes could make a vastly different deal with certain record companies. There would be too much in-fighting and the business would be unstable. iTunes, like Apple, appears to be a take-it-or-leave-it organization. Apple basically says "You want to sell through the biggest online vendor, then it's a buck a song..."

If you search around you will see info like this:
http://www.coolfer.com/blog/archives/20 ... profit.php
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by corrupted.dll »

Hey Kevorkian,

I think you're right about the iTunes 70/30, judging from the content of the link you provided.
Although I had a different experience very well possible due to a third party (middleman).
I didn't negotiate directly with iTunes.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by KEVORKIAN »

corrupted.dll wrote:Hey Kevorkian,

I think you're right about the iTunes 70/30, judging from the content of the link you provided.
Although I had a different experience very well possible due to a third party (middleman).
I didn't negotiate directly with iTunes.
Makes sense. My point was only that I don't think iTunes is out for blood and if anything, Apple has done much to curtail the exorbitant prices that purchased music can command.

To tie all this back to the original topic... It's my view that sky-high CD prices are a major factor in the rise of piracy as a viable practice across so many socio-economic demographics.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by bongo_x »

Shooshie wrote:... We gave them time to get their iPods hooked up. When we busted down the door, they all looked like pathetic losers, hitched to heroin IV's. Turns out those were just the headphone cables. Those used to be curly like phone cables back in the day. How was I to know?

Gannon checked the computer screen. The kid had 30 downloads going on LimeWire. One kid yanked his iPod cord out of the USB slot and bolted for the door. We shot him. Filled him full of hot lead. Take that, you lousy pirate. The other kids all froze. We could smell deep doo-doo. Someone needed to change his undies. Bad.

We took them outside and lined them up against the wall. Then we shot 'em. Filled 'em full of hot lead.

...
I think I've mentioned this before, but there's a book called "Noir" by K.W. Jeter that has some pretty interesting things to say about this subject. Not a feel good book though, nor an easy read.
http://www.amazon.com/Noir-K-W-Jeter/dp/0553762869/

bb
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by SixStringGeek »

KEVORKIAN wrote:It's my view that sky-high CD prices are a major factor in the rise of piracy as a viable practice across so many socio-economic demographics.
A whole conference could be done on the psychology of entertainment pricing.

Consider that the price of a song has been a buck for over 40 years (yes, when I was a tyke, 45's were a buck - technically two songs - but the B side was always lame filler). Everything else has gone up by more than a factor of 4 since then, but for some reason, people remain reluctant to spend more than a buck for a tune.

A similar case is the price of an arcade game. I'll drop a quarter for a play without thinking, but not two quarters per play. Now that everything is two per play, I find I just don't play, but I would if it was a quarter.

The "natural" price for an album seems to have risen to $10. As a teen I recall paying $7 for a 12" or $12 for a double album. So, curiously, the "volume discount" for buying the ten song album has gone away. OTOH, the $18 CD is way over the top. When presented with this atrocity, the buying public has responded not with "no thanks" but "F.U."

People are sick of "rebuying" for format changes too and every format change has been used as an excuse to ratchet up the price. At the time the CD arrived, it commanded a price $2-4 more than the vinyl, despite costing less to produce. The excuse was that it was a higher quality reproduction, but it turns out most people aren't audiophiles and are happy with mp3 through earbuds.

I like to support artists I like and when going to a live show, if they have a CD, I generally buy it. I am fortunate to live a stone's throw from the Bellyup and caught AWB there just before christmas. Great show. The opening band was a local outfit called Pocket that was an instrumental 5 piece featuring a smokin' B3 player. AWB and Pocket had CD's for sale. AWB would even sign theirs, but they were asking $20 for a disc (signed by the band) where Pocket asked $10 for theirs. Guess which one I bought. (Also, I already own most of the AWB catalog through iTunes, but a signed CD as a souvenir would have been fun to own - at maybe $15 I might have gone for it).

Psychology of pricing is tricky.
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Re: Forum wide proposal - Zero tolerance for music theft

Post by bongo_x »

SixStringGeek wrote:
KEVORKIAN wrote:It's my view that sky-high CD prices are a major factor in the rise of piracy as a viable practice across so many socio-economic demographics.
A whole conference could be done on the psychology of entertainment pricing...
I've thought about this same thing a lot, logically we should be paying more. Yet I'm not willing to pay more.

The truth is, in a free market the only thing that matters is what people are willing to pay. What you think the price should be is irrelevant. If you believe that we should decide what the price should be then you don't believe in a free market.

bb
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