DP7: Show V-Racks in Mixing Board

[danika]

What's the purpose of the new feature in DP7, 'Show V-Racks in Mixing Board'? I've used v-racks, albeit not extensively. However, I can't imagine why anyone would need this function. Insight anyone?

[carrythebanner]

My usual "blank slate" project template includes:
Seq-1: empty
V-Rack-1: a master fader (with Inspector, Trim, and some others) and an aux track for my main reverb
V-Rack-2: an unassigned instrument track

When I want to add an instrument, I generally add it to the unassigned instrument track in V-Rack-2 and add a MIDI track assigned to it in my sequence. (If/when I need instrument track automation, I'll move the instrument track to the sequence.)

I use this separation to make duplicating or adding a sequence easier to manage — this way, I'm usually only dealing with audio & MIDI data in the sequence and not all of the other utility stuff. There are some limitations to this approach, but generally it works for me.

With a setup such as mine, seeing the sequence alongside my V-Racks can be very useful. (I'd still like to have the option of opening each sequence and each V-Rack in their own Mixer windows, but the behavior in DP 7 is a step up from previous versions.)

[Kubi]

When mixing you used to have to switch the mixer to either display the tracks in the sequence (so i.e. your recorded audio tracks) OR the tracks in the V-Rack (so i.e. your VIs.) This could be a pain in the ass, since you often need to jump back and forth between changing levels on audio and VIs. So it's nice to have the option to have them all in the same window at the same time to be able to set levels quickly and see all faders at once, without switching windows back and forth.

[Tonio]

Good one Kubi, thanks.

T

[Shooshie]

Let me put it this way: when they made this possible, I nearly cheered. It's SO much easier now. It was the only drawback to using V-Racks before. Now, I can't think of a drawback at all.

Shooshie

[danika]

When mixing you used to have to switch the mixer to either display the tracks in the sequence (so i.e. your recorded audio tracks) OR the tracks in the V-Rack (so i.e. your VIs.) This could be a pain in the ass, since you often need to jump back and forth between changing levels on audio and VIs. So it's nice to have the option to have them all in the same window at the same time to be able to set levels quickly and see all faders at once, without switching windows back and forth.

Hmmm. I must be missing something basic here. I have a number of projects which contain audio, MIDI, aux, and instrument tracks. If I want to see them all in the Mixing Board, I just select all of them in the Track Selector.

[Kubi]

Talking about V-Racks tracks. Of course you can have all kinds of tracks in your sequence and show them all in the mixing board. But now you can also show tracks from BOTH your sequence AND your V-Rack in a single mixer window.

[b.g.]

When I want to add an instrument, I generally add it to the unassigned instrument track in V-Rack-2 and add a MIDI track assigned to it in my sequence. (If/when I need instrument track automation, I'll move the instrument track to the sequence.)

When you need automation do you mean you create an instrument track in the sequence? Or is there a way to move a v-rack track to a sequence? Hoping.

[odarellmc]

i never got v racks and stopped using DP because of it, i would constantly have to manage 2 mixer levels instead of one. when using sequences, the levels would jump from sequence to to sequence and i got tired of having to jump back and forth between my main mixer and v rack and having to create two channels just to play one plug in. it would be just simpler if everything was in the main mixer, like reaper. if i want to use a vst instrument, i dont have to go to another mixer or create a separate mixer channel. i needed to streamline my writing process so i could be creative. i had been using DP since version 3, but i still check in here because this is a great board with great members.

[Kubi]

i never got v racks and stopped using DP because of it, i would constantly have to manage 2 mixer levels instead of one. when using sequences, the levels would jump from sequence to to sequence and i got tired of having to jump back and forth between my main mixer and v rack and having to create two channels just to play one plug in. it would be just simpler if everything was in the main mixer, like reaper. if i want to use a vst instrument, i dont have to go to another mixer or create a separate mixer channel. i needed to streamline my writing process so i could be creative. i had been using DP since version 3, but i still check in here because this is a great board with great members.

Hmm, this doesn't seem to make much sense. You don't have to use V-Racks at all, they are an additional feature if you decide you need to address a single set of instances of VIs and auxes from multiple sequences or songs within the same project.

In fact I never start with V-Racks, but only use them if it turns out I will indeed need to do just that, address the same set of large VIs from multiple sequences inside the same project. At which point I move all the VIs from the original sequence into a V-Rack. Otherwise I simply leave them inside the sequence.

Just to reiterate: In every sequence you can simply instantiate all your VIs and auxes inside the sequence itself. And ever since DP has had instrument tracks and aux tracks, those would then of course be in the same mixing board as all other tracks.

Now this new feature adds the following (the operative term being "adds"): In addition to being able to open all VIs and auxes insinde any sequence of your choosing, should you decide to use V-Racks so your multiple sequences inside a single project can all address the same set of instances of VIs or aux Tracks, now you can also choose to have all those tracks in the same mixing board as all the other ones.

Make sense now?

[Shooshie]

For whatever reason, I've noticed over the years that even very astute and technically minded people can be prone to missing the point about V-Racks and just not getting it.

First of all, V-Racks were created as a solution to using the same instrument over and over in multiple Chunks in the same file. That is, if you have a Chunks window with more than one item in it, and if those two or more chunks are using the same VI's, then you're wasting CPU overhead if you put a separate (but identical) instrument in each chunk.

Let's say you do 10 songs on piano. You put them all in the same file, so you have 10 chunks. Now, are you going to make 10 instances of Ivory? One for each chunk? Originally, you had to. But there's a problem with that, due to the way DP was designed for playing live shows and film cues.

In DP, you can use "Chunk Chaining" to play through the different chunks, one after another, with very little pause between sequences. In order to do this, all VI's have to be active, or else you'll have them loading between chunks. So, even if it's the same VI in two different chunks, they're both active. Or 10 pianos in 10 chunks... get it?

So... V-Racks to the rescue. With V-Racks, you set up a rack of instruments which appears among the chunks in the chunks window. All chunks can use its instruments. Double click it, and it opens in the Mixing Board, but prior to DP7 it would not open side-by-side with the sequence mixer. V-Racks has no other virtual space, only its appearance in the mixing board. It's just a place to set up the instruments and their routing. You can also run automation to them through continuous controllers, and there's even more: V-Racks can house Aux tracks that have your audio basics installed, which can then be used by every chunk.

Let's say you have 10 MIDI sequences. You need audio output for each of them, whether their sound is coming from VI's or from real hardware boxes and keyboards in your actual gear rack. So, you need an audio return for each one of them. Aux tracks work well for this, which you can then route to a submaster, add a reverb track and have the audio stems send reverb to that track, all mixed back together in the submaster. That's a lot of setup to have to do 10 times. So, just do it once, put it in the V-Rack, and you've got it.

You want to be able to get audio back into your sequence? Use auxes in your sequence and automate them there. That's the "easy way" to automate VI's.

V-Racks had only one drawback before. If you were in the mixing board of your sequence (your chunk), and you wanted to visit the VI's in their tracks, you had to either use the keyboard command COMMAND-SHIFT-V, or double click on the V-Rack in the Chunks window. That was awkward. So, now DP gives you the V-Rack right there in your mixing board with the other tracks.

So, what's so great about it? It has all the advantages of having your VI right there in your sequence, while still retaining the convenience and low CPU overhead of only having to set up any VI one time for use in all your sequences within a single DP file. I have DP files with as many as 30 sequences in them. In fact, rather than create a new file, I quite often just create new chunks. I have to keep track of what's in each file, but that's not so hard to do. (you can always print to PDF the chunks window for each file)

The greatest advantage for me in using V-Racks is that when you set up audio tracks or MIDI tracks, your I/O routing is identical to using external gear. So, it mimics real life. That's the best way for me.

Also, you can create complex sets of VIs and Aux tracks with effects, then store them in Clippings Windows. Then, any time you open another DP file, you can add the V-Racks by dragging them in from the Clippings Window to the Tracks Overview Window. To store anything in the Clippings Window, select it and go to the Edit Menu, then pull down to the "Copy to Clippings..." menu.

You can't understand why this new feature (V-Racks appear in mixing board WITH the sequence) is a great thing if you don't understand V-Racks. I hope I've shined some light on the subject for those who are unsure of V-Racks. Not everyone needs all the great features of DP, but this is one that everyone at least owes to themselves to give a try, to figure out what's going on so that you can get in on one of the EASIEST, Fastest, most convenient ways of adding VI's and complex stems and routing, portable from file to file, and as simple to use as regular rack gear I/O.

Shooshie

PS: I'm not in front of DP right now, but to put a VI or an Aux track (or many of each) in a V-Rack, you select what you want to move to the V-Rack, then you pull down the Project Menu to Sequences/Move to V-Racks/ followed by the specific manner in which you want to do that. Say, move to a new V-Rack? An existing one? Which one? and so forth.

[carrythebanner]

When I want to add an instrument, I generally add it to the unassigned instrument track in V-Rack-2 and add a MIDI track assigned to it in my sequence. (If/when I need instrument track automation, I'll move the instrument track to the sequence.)

When you need automation do you mean you create an instrument track in the sequence? Or is there a way to move a v-rack track to a sequence? Hoping.

You can drag a V-Rack from the Chunks window to the Tracks window to duplicate the V-Rack tracks in your sequence. Doing so won't re-route your MIDI assignments from the instrument in the V-Rack to the instrument in the sequence, but it can be a little bit quicker than manually saving a preset in the V-Rack instrument, create another instrument track in the sequence, and loading that preset. Also, this copies all of the contents of the V-Rack into your sequence; I don't know of a way to move a single track from a V-Rack into the sequence.

Luckily for me, I tend to work with VIs that can be automated via MIDI CCs, so I rarely need to move the actual instrument track from the V-Rack into my sequence.

[danika]

First of all, V-Racks were created as a solution to using the same instrument over and over in multiple Chunks in the same file. That is, if you have a Chunks window with more than one item in it, and if those two or more chunks are using the same VI's, then you're wasting CPU overhead if you put a separate (but identical) instrument in each chunk.
......
So... V-Racks to the rescue. With V-Racks, you set up a rack of instruments which appears among the chunks in the chunks window. All chunks can use its instruments. Double click it, and it opens in the Mixing Board, but prior to DP7 it would not open side-by-side with the sequence mixer. V-Racks has no other virtual space, only its appearance in the mixing board. It's just a place to set up the instruments and their routing. You can also run automation to them through continuous controllers, and there's even more: V-Racks can house Aux tracks that have your audio basics installed, which can then be used by every chunk.

So what would be the problem with a design that allowed you to create a single mixing board with all of the aux tracks and instrument tracks that you need and allowing multiple sequences to share it. That's essentially what I do in Ableton Live when I create multiple scenes that are used by the same mixer. Seems to me like V-Racks are an unncessary complication.

[Shooshie]

So what would be the problem with a design that allowed you to create a single mixing board with all of the aux tracks and instrument tracks that you need and allowing multiple sequences to share it. That's essentially what I do in Ableton Live when I create multiple scenes that are used by the same mixer. Seems to me like V-Racks are an unncessary complication.

Apparently you haven't used them and do not realize what they're like.

[OldTimey]

So what would be the problem with a design that allowed you to create a single mixing board with all of the aux tracks and instrument tracks that you need and allowing multiple sequences to share it.

That single mixing board is a V-Rack.

Why would you want to have a mixing board, shared between sequences or "scenes" as you call them in Live that shares ALL the track channels that may or may not be used in every sequence? You wouldn't. You want a section of the board with everything that is shared between 'scenes' or sequences (the V-Rack) and a section of the board that contains all elements that are not shared.