Using an external hardware reverb?

[buzzsmith]

Okay, in my quest to possibly become "mixerless", I'm attempting to access an external Lexicon PCM 70.

(Step 1 is to not involve CueMix)

I'm running into issues!

1. I routed the outputs of the PCM 70 to inputs 7 and 8 on a 2408mkII
2. I plugged the input cable of the PCM into output 3 of the 2408mkII
3. I created an Aux track with it's inputs being 2408-2 Analog-A 7-8
( I have 2 2408s, hence the "-2" designation)
4. On the live Microphone channel within the Mixer, I assigned the send to 2408-2-Analog-A3
5. Under Setup/Configure Audio System/Input Monitoring Mode I selected "Monitor record enabled tracks through effects"

So now, with DP stationary, I do hear the external reverb with the track armed to record.
However, as soon as I hit play, the microphone channel mutes, but my test recording is playing back and I do hear the external reverb being applied to the audio.

If I go into record while the track is playing, I once again hear the reverb of the external PCM 70 with the live mic.

This would probably be acceptable, except that when I'm tracking and playing back a mix, I want to be able to hear the musicians/singers comments. I can't have these tracks muted.

If I click on the little Blue Speaker icon, in the Tracks view window underneath the MON column, then I can hear the reverb when DP is "playing" but I can't hear what was recorded! Equally unacceptable, obviously.

If I switch back to Input Monitoring Mode "Direct hardware playback" then I hear the reverb being applied to the pre-recorded audio, but not to the live mic. The live mic, however, does stay on during playback...just no 'verb!

So is CueMix the option?

CueMix is not at all intuitive to me or very detailed in the PCI-424 manual and I don't understand (for instance) this from MOTU's Support Page...

***********************************************************

How do I use an external effects processor with CueMix?

Cuemix DSP allows for the routing of any input to any output. This allows for easy integration of outboard effects. For instance, here is one way of utilizing Cuemix DSP technology with a reverb unit:

* Set your effects unit to have a 100% wetness/saturation. (CHECK)
* Take your effects unit and plug the output/send of the unit into an unused input, say, Analog 8 (Analog 7/8 if it has a stereo output). (CHECK)
* Pick an unused output on your MOTU interface, say, Analog 8, and plug it into the input/return of your effects unit. (CHECK)
* In Cuemix Console, create a bus that outputs out of Analog 7/8. (How do you create a bus?...they seem to be pre-defined?)
* Any input channel whose fader is up will output out of Analog 7 and 8.
* Be sure to hard pan your channel to the far right to have the maximum signal output.
* Analog 8 (or 7/8) will now have your wet signal.
* If you wish to record this, remember to record both your dry signal as well as your wet signal and blend both to get the balance of fundamental and ambience that you desire. (or "ambiance" if you want to be really correct, but I digress)
***********************************************************

Am I missing something here those that are mixerless?

I'm running out of ideas! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks...

Buzzy

[wylie1]

Thanx again Buzz.
I thought the Aux track Idea would have worked.
I've seen a howto cue mix somewhere I'll look around for it.

[wylie1]

Heres some of the Cue mix stuff I've seen
http://www.youtube.com/user/motuTV#p/u
I'm still trying to absorb it.

[buzzsmith]

Thanx again Buzz.
I thought the Aux track Idea would have worked.
I've seen a howto cue mix somewhere I'll look around for it.

Anything you can find!

Buzzy

[wylie1]

Look up^
We posted at the same time

[buzzsmith]

Heres some of the Cue mix stuff I've seen
http://www.youtube.com/user/motuTV#p/u
I'm still trying to absorb it.

CueMix FX must not be supported on a PCI-424 card.

When I open the app, I get nothing with no Devices even available.(?)

[wylie1]

I won't be able to try anything till Friday.
But I thought it was.

[buzzsmith]

Quickly looking on MOTU's website it seems to be only for the FireWire interfaces.

I'm calling it a day!

[Tim]

Cuemix DSP (2408 pci424) will provide 'zero' latency through DP's Audio Patch Through without having to use the Cuemix interface.

I've not tried this, but imagine it could be done this way:

!!!Start With Speaker Volume Low, In Case OF Feedback Loops!!!

With your PCM70 wired as you said (A-3 to it's in, and out to 2408-2 Analog-A 7-8):

Create a Stereo Audio track and set it's inputs to 2408-2 Analog-A 7-8, and turn it's monitoring on by clicking the speaker icon in the MON column (no need to record enable). This will be the Reverb Return.

Create an audio track for the live mic (say Analog input 1) and enable it's input monitoring.

Enable DP Audio Patch Through (set to Blend to hear mic during playback), and make sure Input Monitoring is set for Direct Hardware

The live mic should be heard (dry) through the monitors (via the output it's track is set to).

Now, open Cuemix and select the Analog 3-4 bank from the mini menu above the master fader. Un-mute the live mic's input (Analog 1) on the left and pan it left... that fader should send the live signal to the reverb input (Live Tracking Send Level). For playback of course, use the track's Aux Send to A-3 for reverb.

If not using Cuemix for anything else you might want to pull all of it's faders down by holding Option-Shift.

If mixing all internally, the reverb return would need to come back into an Aux track, or Monitor Through Effects turned back on. There will then be latency on the reverb return.

[buzzsmith]

Thanks...I'll try it step by step tomorrow...pre-turkey most likely!

Buzzy

[Shooshie]

CueMix FX must not be supported on a PCI-424 card.

When I open the app, I get nothing with no Devices even available.(?)

That's correct.

Buzzy, there's one thing that confused me about CueMix when I first started using it. Actually several things. But first, I had to wrap my mind around the fact that it's running a piece of hardware. It's not a software interface that can do miraculous things. It's a front-end that simply has the ability to save the hardware with a different mix for each output pair. Each output pair has its own page. The settings are all simultaneously active, but only for each page's own output pair. Page/bus 1 will only affect the outputs on channels 1 & 2. Page/bus2 only affects outputs 3 & 4, and so on. You can apply the same mix to all pages/busses by holding down the option key while making a move. It says on mine:

• Option key: apply to all busses
  Shift key: apply to all inputs
  Command key: apply to stereo pair

I don't know what I was thinking when I first started using CueMix; that was a long time ago. But it wasn't right. I think I was trying to believe that each Page was a separate mix that could be called up instantly for your Main Outs.

To complicate matters, some CueMix versions work differently than others. Mine is specifically for my legacy boxes: MOTU 1296 and MOTU 2408mkII. CueMix works differently for newer boxes, which have their CueMix and effects built in. My old 896 doesn't even HAVE a CueMix that'll work with it. The CueMixes for Firewire interfaces only work with 896 HD and those more recent than that. They changed all that just about a month after I bought both the 1296 and the 896. That was the one time I was ever hopping mad at MOTU. They took away my CueMix for the 896, and left the other one crippled! (compared to new ones)

Futher confusing the complications, the various CueMixes have different features. What one person says is possible with his CueMix is not possible with mine. The menu items are not even there on mine. I've seen screenshots of other versions' menus, and they don't even look like mine. By versions, I'm not talking about being up-to-date on the software and drivers. I mean that legacy boxes have their own version of CueMix, Firewire boxes have their own version, and the newer PCI boxes have THEIR own version. It's the same card (PCI-424 or PCI-424e or x) but the boxes themselves apparently have their own versions of CueMix built-in. I'm not sure how all that works. One would have to own one of each and compare them. Just bear in mind that what one person advises you to do in CueMix may not even be there in your version. Most people do not realize this, and it leads to miscommunications. (and occasional name calling )

If I've told you the obvious, then so be it. But you said you haven't used CueMix, and I just wanted to help you avoid the confusion that I started out with.

Shooshie

[buzzsmith]

Thanks for your insight.

That may possibly explain some of my confusion with CueMix, as you noted that there are different versions for different interfaces.

CueMix FX looks good, but I can't run it as noted above. And even if I wanted to add a supported interface I believe that's a MOTU No-No re: concurrently using a PCI card *and* a FW interface.

Could be wrong..

Buzzy

[wylie1]

Buzz what versions are your 2408's?

[buzzsmith]

Buzz what versions are your 2408's?

Wylie:
The original 2408 (with RCA plugs) and the 2408 mkII
and the MOTU 24 I/O (the last model, I believe, not the original 24).
All connect to the PCI-424 card.

Buzzy

[buzzsmith]

Cuemix DSP (2408 pci424) will provide 'zero' latency through DP's Audio Patch Through without having to use the Cuemix interface.

I've not tried this, but imagine it could be done this way:

TIM!!

Thank you!

It worked as described.

I'm still learning "why" it worked but I do understand the signal path. I never thought about "Blend" since Audio Patch Through defaults to "Auto".

Another step forward to (perhaps) going fully ITB.

At least, I know I have the option.

You made my day!

Buzzy