How many folks are using DP Mixerless?

[martian]

to me a fader pack isnt really a mixer - so I'm in the 100% camp and have been since 2006..

I do like a control surface for movie mixing - I can shape 3 or 4 thinsgs at once ... dialog music Fx anyone?

ITB is great for flexibility - and this is DP strong point - can afford 3 or 4 fully fledged machines for less than one PT RIG..

But outboard can certainly impart a flavour

I dont mind taking longer over a mix - as long as they are paying...

and they usually pay more if they see a console...

[mhschmieder]

Funny; I thought this was going to be about whether we still use the Mix Window now that we have Inline Mixing.

I doubt I'll ever try to use an outboard mixer with a computer again, after 18 months of zero productivity during my painful failed experiment with the Yamaha 01X mLAN Mixer.

I guess it depends on what you mean by a mixer. I might consider a Euphonix MC Mix at some point, and am definitely considering their MC Transport unit.

But I do my mixes In the Box. If I'm recording drums, I record all channels individually and wait until mixdown to create the drum stem submix. I don't want to make any mistake that can't be undone, based on false assumptions about the room environment and phase interaction at the time of recording.

When doing overdubs, I rarely do more than four tracks at once, and that would be the same instrument. For example, a stereo mic near the soundhole of an acoustic guitar, a mono mic on the neck, and a direct signal, which I'll mix later In the Box.

I can really think of any reason to use an outboard mixer with a DAW, frankly. Unless you have one that has great mic pres and are using it for that. I'm a strong believer in minimizing the signal path and avoiding multiple gain stages on the way to the recording.

[martian]

+1 ( KISS )

keep it simple!

[davedempsey]

Still using a SAC 2k via MIDI - the USB functionality is long since dead. Summing OTB via TLA A4 and A2.

[grouse]

I've never used a mixer. I guess that makes me "new school".

[Mark Walmsley]

I left the old school in 2002 (at which point I had an 02r). When I listen to my early ITB mixes they sound poor compared to what I had been doing... But 7 years later I never want to go back. The ITB mixes are now much better than what I was able to manage with the 02r (which had 2 tascam cards). I don't feel any desire for a control surface, I love the stereo image with nothing between my and the speakers and I love being able to recall EVERYTHING!

[Armageddon]

I've actually mixed with a mouse since my introduction to the wonderful world of DAWs (Vision DSP 4.2.2) back in '99 on my iMac G3 400, so, weird as it seems, I prefer doing it that way. I actually have a complete control surface on my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, but I'm not even sure if you can use it as one inside DP, and other than eventually getting the transport controls to work inside of DP, I have no interest in trying. I mix more linear than a traditional engineer, where all fader moves are gradual -- which may arguably make me a terrible engineer! -- so using faders would require me to learn a lot of new habits.

I will NEVER mix inline!!! It would make me feel like I'm using Logic (shudders).

I know some engineers still prefer putting their stuff back out to analog and using analog outboard gear (and if you had a rig like SSL's Matrix, it would make a sort of sense), but I'd rather not deal with the additional D/A conversion. I think DAW mixing has come far enough (and for me, it was plenty fine back in the days of Vision) that it's really not necessary to the process. In five more years, analog mixers may become obsolete altogether for home studios.

[Shooshie]

I've got a 14 channel mixer, but I only use it for utility purposes. I still record mics through it now and then, but I've got a feedback loop in the way I connected it to my digital audio interface (MOTU 1296), so before I change from recording through its preamps to monitoring through it, I have to do some fancy stuff in CueMix. I've just never used it enough to figure out a better way of connecting it all together. My headphones come out of it, too.

I DO need it for output to my monitors. My signal is way too hot for that amplifier, and I've got to be able to grab those faders if I accidentally switch something through that amp without first attenuating the volume. When that happens ITB, it takes me a good 10 seconds to figure out what to do and do it! That's long enough to shred a monitor.

So, yes and no. I would not be comfortable without something there, but 14 channels is overkill. I could get by with 4 or 6.

Shooshie

[climber]

no mixer but I would be lost without my Mackie MCU and 2 Expanders. I hate doing faders with the mouse, plus it just feels more like a console.

[mattfort]

I've been mixer-less for years now....

[cbergm7210]

Went from a cheap Fostex board in 1992 to an Alesis X2 for years then a Mackie D8B. With the Mackie I used the mouse most of the time and just watched the fader move in front of me, so going to ITB with DP was seamless for the way I worked. (An added bonus to not having to reach for faders was not having to go to the chiropractor every couple of months.)

Personally I couldn't wait to get rid of every cable I could, every outboard piece of gear, and go to a system that allowed me to go from one project to another by simply opening a file. That is huge for me on a daily work basis.

But that's just me.

Chris

[David Polich]

I'm still old-school - I would never go without a mixer. I run
a lot of external hardware synths, plus I'm often recording
my Disklavier piano or small ensembles, or hosting "mini" band
rehearsals and need the inputs. I have an old Soundcraft
Digital 328 and I love the sound of it, plus it has every
connectivity feature you can think of - ADAT, word clock, AES/EBU,
sPDIF, and analog ins/outs plus inserts on every channel.

For me the trick is to find a GREAT sounding mixer - not just a
cheapie for utility. I never found the sound of Yamaha 02R's or
the Mackie 8-bus mixers to be satisfactory - too "grey"
and sterile. I had a Trident 8T
for awhile, found it noisy and got rid of it. Also tried a Yamaha
N12, way too bright and it lacked enough aux sends. Currently for
a "spare" mixer I have an Allen and Heath Zed board which sounds
almost as good as the Soundcraft and is quieter than the Soundcraft
too. When the day comes that the old Soundcraft breathes its last,
I'll probably get a PreSonus StudioLive 16.

[cloudsplitter]

I guess a control surface isn't the same as a mixer.

[wylie1]

I'm still old-school - I would never go without a mixer
I'll probably get a PreSonus StudioLive 16.

I'm the same but me and my old board and I are growing apart plus it would be nice to have the extra space.
That PreSonus StudioLive 16 does look like a nice little unit.
Most my feeds now come from a drum kit I was hoping to win the 8pre and stick by the drums and take a fiber connection off it and slowly phase out the mixer.
I'm in procrastination mode.

[Timeline]

I have to admit I sold all my API 8200 series mixer modules with the last one going out the door a month ago. Still, I would love to have a real desk and separate outputs to an SSL analog console to use my favorite "SSL automation". The down side of that is the $60 large the desk would cost.

So, weekly lottery results demand I muddle through using MOTU's extremely short and rather non resolute faders "in the box" in hopes that they actually improve that part of DP in the future. I have been waiting 6 years on fader length updates.

It's really not a matter of sound anymore for me as I think "ITB" sounds fine especially with my ears rolling off at my age. hehe. It's the philosophy of what I call professional mixing which in the box seems to truncate for me to some extent although it works. I get a control room feel when in a control environment and my mixes are generally more conceptual.

I have a Mackie control but it's an older one still in a box still packed up from my move this summer. It helps the resolution of the fader moves when I use it but takes time to switch around to 40 or so channels so in the end I just find that cumbersome.

I'm also a fan of 16 track 2" so there ya go. If I had a choice I would use a real studio 100% of the time, that is if I liked the desk, and record to analog 16 track 2 inch, do a few overdubs and transfer to DP for the obvious editing, plugs and extreme flexibility now available for projects in digital.

Wish we could speed and slow the projects (cleanly) like analog machines for effects and such. I guess those days are gone but I won't sell my two multi-tracks and Lynx lock up system ever. Please bury me with them.

Summery: In the box is fine but lacks elegance for me.