Euphonix DP Update

[wabbitguy]

I have been doing a lot of testing with Euphonix's MCMIX, networks, SL and DP 7.0.2 and have got a bunch of interesting results for my efforts. The bassist and I spent two days doing testing and I hope it doesn't take two days to document it all...

The whole thing started out simple enough with an update to Snow Leopard. As I was recording (usually multiple tracks recording and 5-8 tracks playing back at the same time; overdubbing), I would get what sounded like "static" in the recorded tracks. It was sporadic at best, didn't happen all the time in some recordings, whereas in others it happened every few seconds.

At first I assumed the audio interfaces (Ensemble, Audiofire). Adding an external clock to sync both interfaces did nothing to correct the "static". I proceeded to check all the wiring for the desk and racks, it was fine too.

My starting setup was iMac (DHCP)-->Router-->Wireless Bridge to Main Office Network.

I uninstalled the Eucon software. Recordings were perfect. Ah ha. Narrowing it down. Installed the EuCon software (2.0.3), rebooted but didn't power up the MXMix. Did some recording and got a couple of static hits in the recording. But it was better.

Removed the router and replaced it with an ethernet switch/hub (removed wireless bridge). Redid the recording testing, MC Mix still off. Didn't notice any static hits.

Powered up the MCMix, made it a static IP, used ethernet switch/hub, no bridge. Got one static hit in the recording. So it's starting to look like some communication coming from the MCMix is causing a glitch in the audio.

Redid the same test but made the McMix DHCP. No change, still got one static hit in the recording.

Connected up the bridge and got lots of static hits.

As noted in my previous posts, the MCMIX clients that run within the confines of DP are chatty little suckers. They don't know if there is a network, an MCMix connected, powered up or anything. Essentially they are brain dead.

I had read that Euphonix advises that you keep the MCMix on it's OWN network. Thus armed with that info, I started thinking about using the router again, but changing the LAN side to keep it as a different network. So here's what I did:

iMac (DHCP)-->Router LAN (10.0.0.x)--WAN (DHCP)->Wireless Bridge->(192.x.x.x office side)
MCMIX DHCP (and I tried static 10.0.0.x)

As expected the Eucon software floods the network with TCP and UDP packets to talk to the MCMIX but they don't get passed through to the WAN. Hence the network is isolated. I could still use the internet so I assumed all would be happy. During this, I also noted that ARP packets are being set out. Hummmm...

Pulled up Apples Network Utility to check on Netstat routing tables. Couldn't get any. Not with any router I have (Netgear, DLink, etc). Could with an ethernet switch/hub but not a router. Weird. Ran Netstat in the Terminal and I could get info there. More weird.

Tried recording, got static. RATS!
Removed the wireless bridge and replaced with an ethernet cable (100 footer)...same static. Rats 2!!!

So here's the skinny as I see it. The two daemons that run within DP that yap on the network to communicate with the MCMix work to a point, but when the MCMIX is online and talks BACK, they cause a hiccup in the audio processing in DP. You can't see it on the CPU meters in DP, it doesn't show on any of the meters for my audio interfaces but it's in the audio track. Until you play it back you have no idea you recorded it. But once recorded it will play back quite faithfully....

The MXMix worked best when connected to the Mac directly (no switch or router) via ethernet. But this limits the internet access of course.

After giving the whole thing some more thought....we finally came up with something that seems to be working so far. Probably a bandaid solution but so far, it works.

MCMix to Mac via ethernet cable (no switch or router)
iMac ethernet static 10.0.0.2, MCMIX static 10.0.0.4
Airport 192.168.1.x (static)--> Office wireless router.

Snow Leopard asks what to use for the "internet" so I selected Airport.

At this point, all the software is working, packets aren't crossing the networks, internet works fine, no static hits in recording.

Seems that I am not alone in this quagmire that Euphonix seems oblivious to. Being nice and reporting crashes and problems to their technical support has gotten no further than being sarcastic and doing the same. Why they are taking forever to address the problems is beyond my comprehension. I'm almost to point of mailing them a Christmas stocking with a lump of coal in it...(and then telling them there will be an update sometime to coal 2.0)...

Hope this helps someone who has been facing similar issues.

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

I haven't seen the static during the tracking I have done, which seems strange to me. However I have been avoiding using my MC Control and killing all related processes and only allowing them to run when I need to automate faders.

Euphonix was supposed to have prepped a 2.1 update around NAMM, but I read somewhere that they are waiting on Apple (!!!!) for an OS fix before updating.

This seems a bit insane to me because it essentially means that they don't have any official SL drivers to this date.

[wabbitguy]

I haven't seen the static during the tracking I have done, which seems strange to me. However I have been avoiding using my MC Control and killing all related processes and only allowing them to run when I need to automate faders.

Euphonix was supposed to have prepped a 2.1 update around NAMM, but I read somewhere that they are waiting on Apple (!!!!) for an OS fix before updating.

This seems a bit insane to me because it essentially means that they don't have any official SL drivers to this date.

I haven't noticed any problems in playback for the most part. It's during record functions where I get the static snaps (sounds like rice krispees). It does it on both of my interfaces so that tends to rule out the interfaces themselves. It could be that it's a combination of DP writing to the HD at the same time the network has some heavy activity.

Years ago I remember having to turn off AppleTalk because it got the CPU priority and would interfere with recording software. I assumed those days were over...apparently not.

Euphonix has mentioned the update word to me, the word was "soon". That was a month and a half ago. I hope they get their paycheques as "soon"... Also got the pointy finger at Apple for releasing Snow Leopard a week ahead of schedule (in spite of the fact it's be available in beta to developers for a year). Unless your developers are off shore, in which case Apple is quite fussy about who they let in their developer programs.

None the less I agree with you about the lack of update. Euphonix balances great hardware with abysmally lousy software/support.

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

Total curiosity... what drive are you recording to? Is it an external FW? I'm certain that whatever it is, it is fast enough but I have noticed that DP was more sluggish during tracking when I had my iMac/FW setup. I wonder if the Euphonix driver overhead throws this over the top for you and maybe that is why I have not seen it?

[wabbitguy]

Total curiosity... what drive are you recording to? Is it an external FW? I'm certain that whatever it is, it is fast enough but I have noticed that DP was more sluggish during tracking when I had my iMac/FW setup. I wonder if the Euphonix driver overhead throws this over the top for you and maybe that is why I have not seen it?

I'm using the internal drive of the iMac. I have two firewire audio interfaces, one connected to the 400 bus, the other is in the 800 bus.

Going back a way, I used an FA101 along with my Audiofire and an external HD all on the external 400 bus. I had all kinds of problems with that setup. Soon as I took the HD off the firewire bus it all returned to normal.

I'm still betting is the MC hardware that "reports" to the daemons that cause the hiccup in processing in DP. Because if I turn the hardware off, it works. I should also mention if you unplug a working MCMix from the network or cause any interruption in the "network" the Eucon control application crashes in a heartbeat. And once it does, that kills DP during launch (sigbus error).

Apple changed a lot of things in Snow Leopard low level wise (32 vs 64 bit) and I wonder if the driver isn't having a conniption because of it. They still need to fix the ruddy thing..

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

I'm using the internal drive of the iMac. I have two firewire audio interfaces, one connected to the 400 bus, the other is in the 800 bus.

Going back a way, I used an FA101 along with my Audiofire and an external HD all on the external 400 bus. I had all kinds of problems with that setup. Soon as I took the HD off the firewire bus it all returned to normal.

I'm still betting is the MC hardware that "reports" to the daemons that cause the hiccup in processing in DP. Because if I turn the hardware off, it works. I should also mention if you unplug a working MCMix from the network or cause any interruption in the "network" the Eucon control application crashes in a heartbeat. And once it does, that kills DP during launch (sigbus error).

Apple changed a lot of things in Snow Leopard low level wise (32 vs 64 bit) and I wonder if the driver isn't having a conniption because of it. They still need to fix the ruddy thing..

Mel

I agree that a fix is really overdue at this point. How many tracks were you recording while testing? I will try to recreate a similar issue when I can. I have only been tracking for writing and not doing any live band tracking here but I'd like to know if I also have the issue before it bites me.

[wabbitguy]

I agree that a fix is really overdue at this point. How many tracks were you recording while testing? I will try to recreate a similar issue when I can. I have only been tracking for writing and not doing any live band tracking here but I'd like to know if I also have the issue before it bites me.

We normally play back four or five tracks, and record 5. But for testing, I was playing back five tracks and recording three (but I could cause problems with two tracks as well).

Something else you can try too. When you get the MC(whatever) on the network, and the EUcon software running (you don't need to run DP), then go into the Applications-->Utilities folder and run Network Utility. Select the EN0 interface, click the NetStat selection, select top item (Display Routing Table Information) and click the Netstat button.

In a short period of time, you should come up with the routing table. When I have a router connected and the MCMix running, this just stalls my Mac forever. Disconnect the router and it returns values in a heartbeat.

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

Something else you can try too. When you get the MC(whatever) on the network, and the EUcon software running (you don't need to run DP), then go into the Applications-->Utilities folder and run Network Utility. Select the EN0 interface, click the NetStat selection, select top item (Display Routing Table Information) and click the Netstat button.

In a short period of time, you should come up with the routing table. When I have a router connected and the MCMix running, this just stalls my Mac forever. Disconnect the router and it returns values in a heartbeat.

Mel

I just tried this and Network Utility comes up with the table very quickly no matter which interface I select (en0, etc)

[wabbitguy]

Something else you can try too. When you get the MC(whatever) on the network, and the EUcon software running (you don't need to run DP), then go into the Applications-->Utilities folder and run Network Utility. Select the EN0 interface, click the NetStat selection, select top item (Display Routing Table Information) and click the Netstat button.

In a short period of time, you should come up with the routing table. When I have a router connected and the MCMix running, this just stalls my Mac forever. Disconnect the router and it returns values in a heartbeat.

Mel

I just tried this and Network Utility comes up with the table very quickly no matter which interface I select (en0, etc)

Just to confirm, you did have the Mac plugged into a router, a valid IP (DHCP or static) and you were able to use the internet?

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

Just to confirm, you did have the Mac plugged into a router, a valid IP (DHCP or static) and you were able to use the internet?

Mel

Yes to all three.

My mac pro hits a netgear switch and then a netgear router/firewall that is giving out DHCP. I have a reservation set for my mac and the mc control.

[wabbitguy]

Just to confirm, you did have the Mac plugged into a router, a valid IP (DHCP or static) and you were able to use the internet?

Mel

Yes to all three.

My mac pro hits a netgear switch and then a netgear router/firewall that is giving out DHCP. I have a reservation set for my mac and the mc control.

Thanks! I'm going to have to go back to the iMac and see why mine is not doing what's supposed to do. More tracking...sheesh...

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

Do you think the delay could be related to airport?

[wabbitguy]

Do you think the delay could be related to airport?

Nope, when I got the static noises badly, I had the airport completely disabled. As soon as we connected a router to my iMac, Netstat from Apples Network Utility refused to get me the routing tables. I could use the Terminal and get them, but not through the app.

I'm going to try to do an archive and install of Ice Kitty again and see if that cures or kills it...

Mel

[KEVORKIAN]

Version 2.1 out today!! I'm away for the week so I won't get to try it until next week, unfortunately!

[wabbitguy]

Version 2.1 out today!! I'm away for the week so I won't get to try it until next week, unfortunately!

Yea I see that. Maybe we influenced them..."not"...

I'm busy tearing down the iMac in the studio to put in a bigger hard drive, install "fresh" software, then get everything up and running again. Going to take the rest of today at least.

Mel