DP 7 w/ DAE - tempo sync? (w/Stylus, etc)

[workshirt]

I'm running DP7 on a MacPro under os 10.5.8.

Under DAE mode, all Plug-Ins that accept tempo sync (H-Delay, Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, etc) seem to be receiving 120bpm. The same plug-ins work perfectly in ProTools (PT8-HD). They also seem to work correctly when running DP in MAS mode.

Is this a known issue, and is there a fix? I was happy to come back to DP, after suffering through version 6. I was excited on MOTU's own splash page they specifically mention syncing with Stylus. I'm def. bummed that this key feature doesn't operate properly or at all under DAE....

Anybody know??

Thanks!

[laurence]

i'm finding VI's in general wont work with DP7, if i load any VI i get a beachball and crash ! i bought DP6 to get DAE working, now DP7 and still no workie... burnt twice by MOTU

[workshirt]

Actually, for me it seems that under 10.5.8, (MacPro 8 core with 16g ram), I'm up and running with VIs and Plugs under DAE, with the main exception being tempo sync.

The tempo sync problem is a serious issue with a few VIs (Stylus RMX & Omnisphere, for instance) that don't have an easy way to manually select tempo. With Stylus it's an inconvenience (since it will still playback MIDI files at the right tempo) but with Omnisphere and other tempo-based envelopes or effect plug-ins, it's a non-starter.

I'm aware that under MAS the tempo sync works properly. Problem is that I've never been satisfied with the way MAS works with digidesign hardware, hence the need for a properly functioning DP under DAE.

Also, as we know, the tempo sync function works perfectly in Pro Tools for Stylus, Omnisphere, H-Delay, etc, etc. So it's not a DAE problem with the plugs, it's a DP problem with DAE. (unless of course I'm content to write everything at 120bpm...)

Looking for thoughts or workarounds I haven't thought of. Switching back and forth from MAS to DAE is a hassle to say the least (often requires a full Mac restart in between), and I was under the impression that DP7 was really addressing these issues and aggresively trying to work with DAE as a ProTools front end. (taken from their own splash page, and specifically mentioning stylus RMX)

I love the improvements in DP7, but this is a real problem, and borders up on false advertising. I'd love for a MOTU person to weigh in on this as well... (my tech report is still 'unread')

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Carb007]

Yes,yes can't take it any more.
May switch to composing in Pro Tools. Tired of years of little compatibility problems using the DAE. Just need to get writing instead of figuring out "work arounds".
When I called MOTU yesterday with the problem, they said "it was on their radar" (!)
And that I check back for the next update on their website.
Really!

That's the best they can do!

There just pushing me over to digidesign.

-Carb007

[tripit@earthlink.net]

The only issues I have found with Dp7/DAE are the tempo sync, which only occurs when you have 10.5. - the only VI that I found not to have the issue is EZ drummer.
In Tiger, the sync function works with all the plugs. MOTU is aware of this, I gave them a very detailed list of what's not working.

The other issue I have come across has to do with VE Pro. Besides not getting sync, it has a naming issue for the MIDI ports. While they do work and transmit MIDI, all the ports on one instance has the same port name. MOTU is also aware of this issue.

Other than that, I have found DP7/DAE to be excellent, stable and handles every VI I throw at it without issue. In fact, I don't get the RTAS memory error notices like I do when using PT8.01 with the same plugs and set ups. I have constantly found while working with large orchestral sessions in both that DP seems to handle RTAS loads better and with less issue than PT. I can load massive amounts in DP without a single error. PT on the other hand starts coughing out errors after you hit a certain amount of loaded VI's.

I think that MOTU will fix the issue in the next update and it's the last road block for DAE users.

[workshirt]

...

[spirit]

" In fact, I don't get the RTAS memory error notices like I do when using PT8.01 with the same plugs and set ups."

That would be great news if applicable to all the PT users who have gripes with the inefficiency of RTAS VI's.
Is it possible though, that it is a 10.4/PT7 difference from the DAE/RTAS efficiency in PT8 on 10.5? A difference in the efficiency of the DAE engine would likely carry over to DP in DAE mode.
Also, PT8 appears to be particularly affected in all sorts of ways by plugins that may work, but aren't on the compatibility grid- could this be a factor in the comparison.
It would be nice if DP did something PT doesn't- with encouragement to more frustrated PT users the user base might grow large enough that MOTU would be faster in keeping DAE functions upto date.

On that subject (but a bit OT) - any idea if DP will work fine in DAE mode with the Euphnoix controllers without using a HUI emulation? That might be a DP advantage (though DP probably won't work with the Digi controllers).

[tripit@earthlink.net]

Is it possible though, that it is a 10.4/PT7 difference from the DAE/RTAS efficiency in PT8 on 10.5? A difference in the efficiency of the DAE engine would likely carry over to DP in DAE mode.

This is from working with both in the same OS with the same DAE. DP 7.01 and PT 8.01, so they are both accessing the same DAE. I have gotten one or two total errors in DP7, where I get several everyday in PT8. I use the same plugs and even have pretty much the same track layout in terms of VI's, effects, tracks, buses etc. Sometimes I'm working on the same music, just converting the session from one to the other.

As for 10.4 DP7/PT7 - I never got any errors in DP and less errors in PT7.

I'm not sure why there would be less errors in DP, other than maybe the handling of the MIDI or commands has something to do with it. I tend to work pretty fast and sometimes I'm hitting key commands rapid fire, so there might be an issue where several commands back to back are making PT choke for a second. When I do get the errors, I clear the notice and continue on, so it's a momentary hic up, not a crashing error.

[laurence]

umm ok so it seems some of you have VI's working in DAE... can anyone shed any light on why perhaps i can load a DP7 session, even load say "Boom" and press play on the plugin and get sound, but if i dare press play on digital performers transport the computer just stops, thinks for a bit and then beachballs and finally crashes about 30 seconds later... does exactly the same thing for any digidesign VI... any help would be greatly appreciated : i'm using Leopard 10.5.6, DAE 8.0cs3, DP 7.01 on a dual G5 mac....

cheeers

[tonwurm]

you are on PPC (like me), that´s the difference to spirit and tripit

Motu obviously didn´t test the combi DP7, Leopard, PPC, PT8 DAE

After waiting now 6 weeks long to get an answer from motu-support regarding this issue I´ve got the feeling that buying the upgrade to DP7 was a big mistake, same as purchasing DP6 (you know, bussing errors and so on)

the only respond I´ve received to my techlinks (there have been a lot...) is that they have been changed the status to 'resolved' - that´s a solution too

if there wasn´t this fantastic and helpful forum I would have gone a long time before, but as a result to the lack of support by motu DP isn´t my main-DAW anymore. I´m now on PT, sure it has it´s limitations and problems, too - but there is response and support by digidesign

[spirit]

Briefly tried dp 7 (not .01) on G5 PCI-x PPC, 10.5.something , PT 8.0cs3 (Pt8.01 makes some previously usable plugins unusable according to duc.digidesign.com posts) with one instance kontakt instrument. Pressed play a couple of times and didn't freeze. So possibly there is something in your systems. It could be with more use it would be problematic, but just a heads up it might be worth some of the usual trouble shooting steps like trying taking plugins out of the folder- the RTAS and TDM ones that DAE sees most likely- then try adding a VI, if that one doesn't work take it out trash preferences try again with another manufacturer VI, etc. Of course the digidesign trouble shooting steps would need to be done (duc.digidesign.com. Sorry about the vaguries but just had time to do a brief test.
If you get a crash report look what the last items are. On an older PT system recently the usual didn't seem to work, but it kept showing quicktime something at the end, and (touch wood) after deleting quicktime preferences it opened (again touch wood).

[tonwurm]

thanks spirit for your respond

but I did all that trouble shooting like starting only with a mini-plug set and adding only one VI, trashing DAE, PT, DP prefs, rebuild the user permissions and so on...

It also made no difference between DP7.0 / PT8.0cs3 and DP7.01 / PT 8.0.1

I´m on a G5, PCIe PPC, should be that make a difference ?


I will try deleting the quicktime prefs

[Shooshie]

I´m on a G5, PCIe PPC, should be that make a difference ?

Try de-selecting the PCIe card in Hardware Setup, and use System Audio for a while, just to see if the problem goes away. Do you have the latest driver in there?

[tonwurm]

thanks shooshie for helping


but we are talking about DP in DAE -mode

it´s not a problem with an audio-card driver

In MAS-mode with any audio-driver (digi or system-audio) there´s not such a problem, it´s an issue with the combination Leopard, PPC and PT HD hardware and only if DP working in DAE-mode

[workshirt]

To the original question on this thread- tempo sync with plug ins / VIs in DAE mode...

My computer (8core MacPro os 10.5.8, 16 gig ram... PT 8 HD; DP 7.01) will run everything perfectly in ProTools, but when sending tempo to plug ins and VIs (Stylus, Omnisphere, H-Delay, etc, etc) in DP in DAE mode, DP sends specifically 120bpm, no matter what- conductor track or tempo slider. in MAS mode, tempo sync functions properly.

We know it's not a DAE problem, since the tempo syncing in ProTools functions perfectly. It's not a PPC problem, since there are many Mac Pro users suffering with the same issues. This is specifically a DP in DAE issue.

from MOTU - "we are aware of this and are currently looking into this problem."

Everything else about DP7 seems stellar, but this is a major stumbling block, and a deal breaker for fast workflow as a film composer. And I continue to say this issue comes close to false advertising, as on the MOTU website, they specifically mention syncing Stylus RMX on their 'PT8 support page' of DP7 features:

DirectMIDI support
Digital Performer fully supports TDM and RTAS plug-ins that receive MIDI data, including: the click (accented/unaccented beats), MIDI Beat Clocks, MIDI Time Code, and meter/tempo information. For example, you can use the Digidesign Click plug-in, as well as other RTAS plug-ins that require tempo and metrical information. As another example, you can use the beat and tempo based features in the RTAS version of the Spectrasonics Stylus RMX virtual instrument.


I guess it's back to wishing and hoping for now...