Re: DP 7 (It's Spelled "BOO!")

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:49 am

Jim.... stop the presses! Some new information I just came across this evening. Do you use Stylus RMX? I discovered that the MIDI Learn function of Stylus RMX 1.8.2d as well as newer 1.9.0e is BROKEN on my G5 running Leopard, even though it works fine in Logic Express 8.0.2. I fear this is a casualty of the DP6/G5/Leopard combination. If so, I'm pessimistic that DP7 will fix this on a G5 running Leopard.

If MIDI Learn in Stylus RMX is important to you may wish to remain on Tiger. I'm having to now contemplate if that's a feature in Stylus I can live without until I can afford an Intel machine, or will I have to think about downgrading to Tiger... again!

audios · Post by **audios** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:12 am

James Steele wrote:Jim.... stop the presses! Some new information I just came across this evening. Do you use Stylus RMX? I discovered that the MIDI Learn function of Stylus RMX 1.8.2d as well as newer 1.9.0e is BROKEN on my G5 running Leopard, even though it works fine in Logic Express 8.0.2. I fear this is a casualty of the DP6/G5/Leopard combination. If so, I'm pessimistic that DP7 will fix this on a G5 running Leopard.

If MIDI Learn in Stylus RMX is important to you may wish to remain on Tiger. I'm having to now contemplate if that's a feature in Stylus I can live without until I can afford an Intel machine, or will I have to think about downgrading to Tiger... again!

Yes I am using Stylus James. But I have never bumped up to Leopard. I've always stayed in 10.4.11. And I especially want to thank this Forum for that.

I haven't noticed any problems with Stylus or Omnisphere since they (Spectrasonics) got it together with MOTU and the whole Atmosphere/Omnisphere thing was settled. And I must say that I really haven't used the "MIDI Learn" function in RMX. I have found that you can only drag a MIDI sequence from RMX to the tracks window in DP and not the sequence window. Which is sort of a pain sometimes. But I do work with that.

The MIDI issues I have problems with in DP6 and 6.02 is the MCU (Mackie Control Unit) functionality and joystick control of panners in a 5.1 mix. I have more bog downs and eventually crashes when I try to use the MCU for a 2-mix. I have talked to Mackie about it, installed their latest drivers and still no help. And the joystick control hasn't worked for me since the 5.13 days. Maybe DP7 will have some improved MIDI functionality for all our peripherals.

But thanks for the heads up on Leopard. I really think I'm going to stick with Tiger 10.4.11 until I win the lottery and get a new power MAC.

dcoscina · Post by **dcoscina** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:01 am

I will give DP7 a chance. It looks great IMO but I just plunked down money for the Logic 9 upgrade so I will have to wait a bit. I used DP6 over the summer at the cottage on my laptop and I really started digging it. No crashes and I was running a lot of AU plug-ins (Symphobia, LASS, EWQLSO, VSL). All this on a Macbook 1.83ghz.

At this stage, none of the big boys really release junk. They all have merits (and I use 'em all too). I will submit that Cakewalk just released a PAID incremental upgrade for Sonar 8. Now if we want to complain, that would be a good place to start. PAYING for a .5 upgrade? C'mon!

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:43 am

audios wrote:Here's a bit of info from the horses mouth on DP7...

TO MOTU TECH LINK: Right now, DP6.02 is running pretty good for me in 10.4.11 but it sounds like it has done better in Leopard for a lot of users. With the advantages (we hope) of improved performance in DP7, are you basing this on SL, Leopard or even Tiger 10.4.7 and up. For me, Leopard 10.5.6 is as high i can go on my PPC and I don't plan on getting into a new MAC for a long while, unless the LOTO comes through.

Responses
Added by Ronan on 2009/09/16 09:09:02 GMT-5
State change from 'Unread' to 'In progress'
Digital Performer 7 works equally well on Mac OS 10.4.7, 10.5.8 and Snow Leopard 10.6.

Added by James on 2009/09/16 09:47:32 GMT-5
So there's really no performance differences in your beta testing of DP7 in either 10.4.11 or higher OS through 10.6? I can expect to gain full advantage of DP7 performance in 10.4.11 other than the 64-bit architecture, is this correct?

Added by Ronan on 2009/09/16 15:07:48 GMT-5
Digital Performer 7 will take full advantage of all available processors under Mac OS 10.4.11 and 10.6.

So, if MOTU is right, we all will benefit from the upgrade and call it what you will, v6.03, 6.5 or 7.0, it's all good. Ordering now!

Thanks so much for the info, Jim. This clears up concerns that I had about staying in 10.4.11 for the time being. I'm now eager to get my hands on DP7.

The 'little' enhancements, such as integrating v-racks into the mixer, are very intriguing and address a lot of the little speedbumps I've run into. With improvements both underneath the hood and on the dashboard, so to speak, it appears that the improved workflow and efficiency of DP7 should make it an epic version.

I'll reiterate that DP6.02 has been very stable for me under Tiger. I've been very happy and hopefully will soon be happier.

Tobor

bOing · Post by **bOing** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:48 am

The tech did not say that YOU can take full advantage of DP7. He merely stated that DP7 will take full advantage of your machine. That's political speak. It answering a question, but not the one you asked. This now puts the onus on your machine, not the product.

That's my take on the last bit of that communication.

csiaudio · Post by **csiaudio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:34 pm

I love DP - think it's a great DAW. I loath Pro Tools and moved away from it because it was very unstable. I read many of the posts regarding this release, which I can't ever recall software going from 6.0 to 7.0 with only two minor updates which mostly fixed bugs in between. I read James' point of view regarding MOTU being a small privately owned company and that we need to 'support' them - I do appreciate his points. However MOTU doesn't just sell DP. Last I looked they, like many other audio companies, have multiple revenue streams with many other products that they offer. So yeah I would have to say that I do have a problem with them adding a handful of changes, a few new plugs and dinging me for $200 more bucks. I know Apple is a much larger company but I just bought there update with quite a few major changes for $29 bucks. Some how with that I don't feel taken advantage of. Let's not fool ourselves most all of us simply drool over some of the other DAW's and what they include...and yes, I know that I could always jump ship and go over to one of them. Call me comfortable or rooted into DP and I don't want to jump ship...and I also realize that I don't have someone holding a gun to my head telling me to updat but anyway you look at this it still doesn't change the fact that this update is hardly worth being dinged another $200.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:47 pm

csiaudio wrote:I read James' point of view regarding MOTU being a small privately owned company and that we need to 'support' them - I do appreciate his points. However MOTU doesn't just sell DP. Last I looked they, like many other audio companies, have multiple revenue streams with many other products that they offer. So yeah I would have to say that I do have a problem with them adding a handful of changes, a few new plugs and dinging me for $200 more bucks.

What I'm saying is we don't know how much actual work went into DP7. You say a "handful of changes" but I don't know how much work was done. MOTU does have to recoup their R&D. If you don't think it's worth it then you won't update and they won't ding you for 195 more bucks.

I know Apple is a much larger company but I just bought there update with quite a few major changes for $29 bucks. Some how with that I don't feel taken advantage of.

Right... because they ARE a much larger company they can afford to sell you Snow Leopard at $29. Thank the iPhone. They could also dump Logic Studio in the the market and screw smaller companies like MOTU creating consumers to expect unrealistic, subsidized pricing.

Let's not fool ourselves most all of us simply drool over some of the other DAW's and what they include...and yes, I know that I could always jump ship and go over to one of them. Call me comfortable or rooted into DP and I don't want to jump ship...and I also realize that I don't have someone holding a gun to my head telling me to updat but anyway you look at this it still doesn't change the fact that this update is hardly worth being dinged another $200.

Well everyone's got an opinion. And yes, if it's not worth it to you, you won't buy it. I imagine the issue of whether or not it's worth it will untimately be decided by the marketplace. If a large enough percentage of users decide to pay for it, well... then they decided it was.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:35 pm

csiaudio wrote:I love DP - think it's a great DAW. I loath Pro Tools and moved away from it because it was very unstable. I read many of the posts regarding this release, which I can't ever recall software going from 6.0 to 7.0 with only two minor updates which mostly fixed bugs in between.

Logic 6, 7, 8, all had minor fixes that mostly fixed bugs in between. Live gets a new version about every 14 months, Logic moved from 6 to 9 while Live went from 3 to 8. in the mean time DP went from 4 to 7. Which company is raking in the upgrade profits here?

So yeah I would have to say that I do have a problem with them adding a handful of changes, a few new plugs and dinging me for $200 more bucks. I know Apple is a much larger company but I just bought there update with quite a few major changes for $29 bucks. Some how with that I don't feel taken advantage of.

This is disingenuous at best. Logic 9 upgrade is $199, Apple Snow Leopard is the first and only OS from Apple I've seen come out at $29. Unless you found some sale on the Logic 9 upgrade price for the same price as SL, it's hardly a DAW to DAW comparison.

My god, it's really hard not to think that the DP community is overflowing with penny pinchers??? I got hit hard with bugs in Logic 7, which completely killed my feeling that Logic was uber stable or that Apples stewardship would prevent such things. I never thought, screw Apple! screw the Logic team. What I thought was, wow? this whole total music workstation thing is complex, and it's good that most of the time it works really well.
I'm moving back to DP not because I think it's perfect, but because it works as well as the rest, and has a great workflow. Personally I skipped 6, because it's took me that long to realize that I won't be happy just working in Live, and that though I like Logic, DP is better for live performances and sets.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:58 pm

FYI, just an update. MIDI Learn in Stylus RMX is working for me in a somewhat limited/confusing manner. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on. Stylus RMX refuses to learn certain CC values but will learn others. I have no clue yet as to why?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:15 am

csiaudio wrote:So yeah I would have to say that I do have a problem with them adding a handful of changes, a few new plugs and dinging me for $200 more bucks. I know Apple is a much larger company but I just bought there update with quite a few major changes for $29 bucks. Some how with that I don't feel taken advantage of.

And how much was their last upgrade to Logic? Snow Leopard was basically the completion of Leopard. They put out Leopard to meet their own deadline, then freed of that rush, they sat back and finished it properly. It's interesting that Quicktime Pro 7 is included in Snow Leopard, which costs what they charged for the upgrade. It's there as a utility now, since they are moving away from the Quicktime of the Classic MacOS, and have begun a new Quicktime that isn't related to it. Anyway, the point is that for the cost of Quicktime we got it and the finished OS rolled into one. That's not the same as a Logic upgrade or DP upgrade, and you can't make that comparison in a reasonable way. This upgrade has some MAJOR features that we've been wanting. It's up to you whether to buy it, but don't belittle it before you've even seen it and used it. Nobody said this was just a handful of changes and a few plugs. That's certainly not what it says on the MOTU site. That's not what I gather from any of the information out there. My copy is on its way to my door as we speak. I'll report back later if it turns out to have been a waste of money, ok?

csiaudio wrote:Let's not fool ourselves most all of us simply drool over some of the other DAW's and what they include...and yes, I know that I could always jump ship and go over to one of them.

Don't fool YOURself into thinking that we all think the way you do. I own Logic and have no desire to use it. It's there as "insurance," heaven forbid that we should ever be orphaned from DP, because the community abandons it, because talkers keep the level of misinformation flowing and scare new users away. That's politics. And don't fool yourself: it goes on constantly in the wars between various products.

csiaudio wrote:Call me comfortable or rooted into DP and I don't want to jump ship...and I also realize that I don't have someone holding a gun to my head telling me to updat but anyway you look at this it still doesn't change the fact that this update is hardly worth being dinged another $200.

This gets back to what you said before: I do have a problem with them adding a handful of changes, a few new plugs and dinging me for $200 more bucks. Who ever told you that DP 7 is "a handful of changes and a few plugs?" By their own words, they've made hundreds of changes. Don't forget also that for years one of the biggest changes we've been begging them for is "no new features; just make everything work." They added dozens of new features, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that one of those features is "everything works."

I'm comfortable making that assumption, because with Snow Leopard, everything in DP6.02 just works. I'm looking forward to DP7. I think it will mark a turning point in DP, if not DAWs, since OSX.

Shooshie

zed · Post by **zed** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:54 am

Shooshie wrote:...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that one of those features is "everything works."

I'm comfortable making that assumption, because with Snow Leopard, everything in DP6.02 just works. I'm looking forward to DP7. I think it will mark a turning point in DP, if not DAWs, since OSX.

I just love your enthusiasm, and I truly hope that this is a major turning point for DP7 and a great success for MOTU. I'm very much looking forward to your reports, so I have my fingers crossed that you'll get your copy today.

Chris7900 · Post by **Chris7900** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:48 pm

I'd like to add a comment-complaint about having to pay for the upgrade to DP7 so soon after the release of DP6: there should be a lower price ($99) for those of us who are upgrading from DP6 than for those of you who are upgrading from DP5 ($199). I'm a very loyal DP customer but this seems quite unfair.

In my case, I was unable to use DP6 for quite some time since I'm on a PPC running Leopard and use Native Instruments VIs, and there were compatibility issues ("all the fault of NI" according to MOTU - which didn't post a warning about this incompatibility until well after I purchased DP6) so in fact I was mostly on DP 5.13.

odarellmc · Post by **odarellmc** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:05 pm

The 'little' enhancements, such as integrating v-racks into the mixer, are very intriguing and address a lot of the little speedbumps I've run into. With improvements both underneath the hood and on the dashboard, so to speak, it appears that the improved workflow and efficiency of DP7 should make it an epic version.

I'll reiterate that DP6.02 has been very stable for me under Tiger. I've been very happy and hopefully will soon be happier.

Tobor

this may sound crazy but this is the one thing(and i know there should be others) thats making me buy this upgrade. i was just about to buy the prop's Record upgrade because of the inline eq and compression and both audio and virtual tracks in the same place, also a reason why i liked Reaper then MOTU, consolodates the v-rack (yeah!) i stoped working with dp because as cool as v rack were they messed with my work flow (hated switching to another screen)and with the added features MOTU looks to be the mature program we know it to be. can't wait to start using DP again.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:24 pm

Chris7900 wrote:I'd like to add a comment-complaint about having to pay for the upgrade to DP7 so soon after the release of DP6: there should be a lower price ($99) for those of us who are upgrading from DP6 than for those of you who are upgrading from DP5 ($199). I'm a very loyal DP customer but this seems quite unfair.

Again, I disagree with this, I like being able to skip upgrades without being punished, and new users can get in for pretty cheap if they find someone selling even older versions of DP.

That other people get the same deal as you is in no way a guarantee that the price for DP will go down for you. What all other companies charge is right around $199 for a single number upgrade, and roughly $260+ on average for people who are two numbers or more away. So all you complainers about the price are really only going to screw it up for the people who are getting a better deal than normal industry standards. Dog with it's tail cut off logic is not good IMO.

zed · Post by **zed** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:53 pm

Chris7900 wrote:I'd like to add a comment-complaint about having to pay for the upgrade to DP7 so soon after the release of DP6: there should be a lower price ($99) for those of us who are upgrading from DP6 than for those of you who are upgrading from DP5 ($199).

Despite the fact that myself and others are being labelled as "complainers" for expressing this feeling, I totally AGREE with you on this point.

I want to support MOTU development and help them pay their bills, but I do think it would have been a nice gesture to reduce the price for those who jumped to DP6 (especially since so many of us had to go back to 5.13 because of problems with the upgrade, including myself).

I'm not holding on to my sentiments on this, and I have not repeatedly expressed my thoughts about it... but yes, I am going to defend other users who feel the need to share this feeling, because no one should be made to feel bad for sharing a VALID opinion.

------------

Meanwhile, I will likely be paying for this upgrade very soon once I hear the glowing reports that are bound to be coming from Shooshie and others...