URGENT TEMPORARY DP REPLACEMENT!!!

[HLStudios]

Just a day a go my Power Mac just shut down and it doesnt want to boot up anymore...i live in EC so i have to take it to another city to have it checked by apple technicians...meanwhile im gonna have to make it throughout the week using a PC (i know!!!) hooked up with my 2408mk3 and use all of my setup..what i want to know is...which DAW can i use to make it through these rough times!! i've used DP ever since i started this profession (about 7 years ago) so i need something that would really make me feel familiar and comfortable...any suggestions appreciated..

[Frodo]

If your only option for a computer is a PC, then this might not be the right place to inquire, since DP is Mac-only.

However--- I would look into Sonar... fwiw.... PC-only

[HLStudios]

well yes i believe you are right...i have been looking though...it seems my best bet for now is Reaper...seems very user friendly..how does reaper hold up agaisnt DP??? if im not mistaken theres also a mac version which shouldnt be too different.

[mikebeckmotu]

I've tried Reaper in OSX, and it reminds me very much of the Sonic Foundry apps Acid Pro and Vegas (now owned by Sony). You should be able to use this as a temporary replacement; it's a very capable DAW. I won't try to mislead you into thinking you won't have to spend a little time getting acquainted with the interface, but you shouldn't have too much trouble.
I'd use it myself, but it doesn't really offer me anything that I don't already have. I mostly tried it out of interest because I enjoy audio software.

[dix]

It's a completely different model, but Ableton Live is cross-platform and is a great app. Totally different than DP, though well worth learning- and you could install on both your PC and your Mac once it's fixed.

[Frodo]

Totally different than DP, though well worth learning- and you could install on both your PC and your Mac ....

That's where I get confused by the request. The OP said "urgent".

AFAIK, *everything* out there is totally different from DP, so something is going to have to be "learned"...

I guess is what I'm saying is that it's a safe investment to have a second DP setup to work with "just in case".

Dunno.

[Armageddon]

From what I can tell, the best two PC DAW choices are either ProTools, which, aside from being a cross-platform program whose projects you'd subsequently be able to import into DP once you got your Mac back up and running, you'd be able to load up on either a Mac or a PC, should you decide to stick with the program, or Sonar, which appears to be most DP-like in its setup and usage. Frankly, I've been eyballing Sonar's "Producer Edition" for a while now, and they've recently released a $5000 setup that comes with an audio interface and a fully-automated control surface (as well as a built-in virtual Roland Fantom synth) -- both versions come stock with a Logic-sized plethora of plugs and VIs, and they have a cheaper version that's a bit more streamlined. However, your best bet is likely ProTools, since it's fully cross-OS and has the advantage of being able to export to DP, though it may be a larger investment than you want to make, especially if you go the full-blown HD route. Sonar is comparable in price to DP and won't necessarily require a large hardware investment to augment it.

A third and fourth option might be Cubase, whose MIDI isn't quite up to DP specs and might be buggier than you'll want to deal with out of the box, or Mackie's Tracktion, which is a really inexpensive DAW that might be enough to see you through until your main system is repaired. The programs are both cross-OS, so you'd be able to install on either your PC or Mac, and Tracktion is streamlined enough (not to mention cheap enough) that you'd almost be able to hit the ground running.

[Mr. Quimper]

I would second the Pro Tools LE option. I don't like a lot about how Digi operates and the way they cripple the software, but as far as its DAW functions are concerned (not sequencer) it'd probably be the easiest transition from DP (likewise, DP was the easiest transition away from Pro Tools for me).

It is the "industry standard" and it never hurts to have a copy of it, as at some point or other, if you work with other people, it might come in handy.

You won't be able to use your MOTU hardware, however. Their cheapest Firewire rig is around $600-700; USB, $265-350.

[mhschmieder]

Due to the urgency remark, I would not recommend Reaper.

I did finally get it working last night, but by then was too far behind on deadline-critical tasks to afford the luxury of being able to toy with it.

This is not a criticism of the app, just an observation that it is a very different layout from DP and will require some study of the manual. That is probably something you don't have time for at the moment.

Perhaps you could rent an Alesis HD24 as a quick stop-gap, if you mostly need trtacking and not an immediate need for editing?

[Mr. Quimper]

However, your best bet is likely ProTools, since it's fully cross-OS and has the advantage of being able to export to DP.

In terms of Pro Tools LE, it can "export to DP" only via OMF or AAF, same as everyone else, except you have to pay either $500 to get Digitranslator in order to gain said functionality or buy DV Toolkit, which enables timecode functions and OMF & AAF export for $1300. DV Toolkit is for LE users, HD users still have to pay for Digitranslator for OMF/AAF capabilities.

The only way to export to DP from PT without having to shell out at least $500 is to bounce everything out as audio and then pull the audio into DP.

On second thought, screw Pro Tools. Get something else. Anything else. It's not worth it.

[Armageddon]

You won't be able to use your MOTU hardware, however. Their cheapest Firewire rig is around $600-700; USB, $265-350.

Actually, that's just for the Digi interfaces -- the cheapest is one that M-Audio offers, a $79 USB interface called the "Transit" that's fully ProTools LE compatible. Unfortunately, it's only equipped with a single 1/8" analog stereo/digital input/output (S/PDIF optical, pretty much the same digital audio port offered on MacBooks), but it goes up to 96 kHz, which is the limits of ProTools LE/M-Powered, anyway. Pair that with $249 for ProTools M-Powered (essentially the same program as ProTools LE) and you'll have a basic MIDI/audio system plus basic interface that's still cheaper than Live ($499), Cubase ($499), Sonar Producer Edition ($499) and only slightly more expensive than the aforementioned Acid ($299), and although Acid has some allegedly advanced MIDI and audio capabilities now, it's primarily a loop program and might not be the direction you want to go in as a DP replacement.

As for PC DAWS that allow you to use your existing MOTU interface, there's still also Tracktion ($99), Sequel (a very lite version of Cubase, $99), Cubase Essential ($149), Sonar Home Studio XL ($149) or just plain Sonar Home Studio ($99) and, of course, Samplitude ($79), though all of these programs are likely to be limited in their capabilities compared to the pricier programs listed above.

In terms of Pro Tools LE, it can "export to DP" only via OMF or AAF, same as everyone else, except you have to pay either $500 to get Digitranslator in order to gain said functionality or buy DV Toolkit, which enables timecode functions and OMF & AAF export for $1300. DV Toolkit is for LE users, HD users still have to pay for Digitranslator for OMF/AAF capabilities.

The only way to export to DP from PT without having to shell out at least $500 is to bounce everything out as audio and then pull the audio into DP.

True, but let's face it, there's gonna be export issues regardless of what he winds up using, especially taking the PC-to-Mac changeover into account. ProTools has the benefit of being a program he'd be able to use on either platform, and likely useful beyond being a temporary DP replacement.

It also bears mentioning that probably none of those programs, even and especially ProTools, are going to have the MIDI functionality of DP. In fact, the last great cross-OS MIDI sequencer was Master Tracks Pro, and I'll be damned if I know why they stopped making it. If you added present-day VI capabilities to what it already offered, it would probably be the most popular MIDI sequencer on the market, and then you'd have the luxury of picking a DAW based on its audio capabilities, rather than find one where you have to balance both MIDI and audio. DP, and before that, Performer, was the only sequencer that ever even came close on Macs ... and I have no idea what DAW or sequencer comes close to Master Tracks Pro on a PC nowadays.

[Mr. Quimper]

Actually, that's just for the Digi interfaces -- the cheapest is one that M-Audio offers, a $79 USB interface called the "Transit" that's fully ProTools LE compatible.

This is Digidesign. The specific hardware that works with your specific product has to be attached to get the software to work. No M-Audio hardware will work w/ LE software; M-Powered software requires M-Powered hardware, LE requires LE hardware, HD...etc...that's why they have different products. You can open LE & HD sessions though.

Unfortunately, it's only equipped with a single 1/8" analog stereo/digital input/output (S/PDIF optical, pretty much the same digital audio port offered on MacBooks), but it goes up to 96 kHz, which is the limits of ProTools LE/M-Powered, anyway. Pair that with $249 for ProTools M-Powered (essentially the same program as ProTools LE)

M-Powered only supports the Music Production Toolkit, which allows a few more tracks and adds some plug-ins, but not DV Toolkit or Digitranslator, meaning no timecode or OMF/AAF at all w/ M-Powered. Also, the MPT is required to get M-Powered to support sample rates above 48k, which is another $250-300. LE can also be expanded to support multichannel mixing up to 7.1 for a couple grand, M-Powered can't.

True, but let's face it, there's gonna be export issues regardless of what he winds up using, especially taking the PC-to-Mac changeover into account. ProTools has the benefit of being a program he'd be able to use on either platform, and likely useful beyond being a temporary DP replacement.

Agreed.

[Armageddon]

This is Digidesign. The specific hardware that works with your specific product has to be attached to get the software to work. No M-Audio hardware will work w/ LE software; M-Powered software requires M-Powered hardware, LE requires LE hardware, HD...etc...that's why they have different products. You can open LE & HD sessions though.

ProTools LE and M-Powered are the same program, albeit with the "Digi interface key" for LE and an "M-Audio interface key" for M-Powered. If there's other differences between the two programs (aside from no Complete Production Toolkit or DV Toolkit 2 option, see below), I certainly don't know what they are -- sorry about stating it as LE, though.

M-Powered only supports the Music Production Toolkit, which allows a few more tracks and adds some plug-ins, but not DV Toolkit or Digitranslator, meaning no timecode or OMF/AAF at all w/ M-Powered. Also, the MPT is required to get M-Powered to support sample rates above 48k, which is another $250-300. LE can also be expanded to support multichannel mixing up to 7.1 for a couple grand, M-Powered can't.

I don't know which version of M-Powered you're looking at, but again, the most recent version got the same upgrade that LE did and supports 96 kHz sample rates/48 audio tracks out of the box. The only enhancements the Music Production Toolkit makes now are audio track counts up to 64 and an .mp3 option (and some more plugs they throw in). It also costs about $395, which is a tad steep for the luxury of 16 more audio tracks, the ability to convert sound files to .mp3, which iTunes can do for free and some extra Bomb Factory plugs. DVToolkit 2 and the Complete Production Toolkit are $1295 and $1995, respectively, and for that kind of dosh, he could just buy a new gosh darn Mac and resume using DP. Then, there's the ProTools HD option, and the basic bottom-line PCI or PCIe card system starts at $7995 for just the cards, then maybe another $1995 for a 96 I/O interface you'd need to buy to use with the card (and up to $3995 for a 192 I/O, if you were interested in using sample rates up to 192 kHz -- we won't even go into Digi control surfaces or more expensive card systems here). At least you get the actual software for free ... okay, so maybe ProTools isn't a financially-sound investment, but ProTools M-Powered plus the Transit interface seems cheap enough, as well as useful enough, to tide you over on a PC until the Mac is back up and running. Or, there's the umpteen other programs listed above.

[daveyboy]

If it were me and it was only for a week I'd probably use Reaper. It sounds great, has a "free" trial period and is very cheap to buy, and assuming you half way learn it you can have it on your mac as well after you get it fixed and continue working in it, or exporting what you did on the pc, etc. So, no expense and you're rocking right away. But, I don't know much about other pc software. I have used reaper on the mac and like it a lot. If money isn't an issue then maybe one of the earlier suggestions. You have nothing to lose by downloading reaper and trying it. I don't know if there are many other apps you can do that with on the pc or mac side.

[bOing]

I actually switched to Reaper from DP for several reasons. I still use DP for some MIDI, but Reaper is definitely a friendly and quickly maturing DAW that already does much of what others can't. I would go there.