Uneven piano velocities/volumes

[tonyton]

I'm having problems with uneven piano parts.

I use DP6 with Machfive 2 (OS10.5 with a 2408 and a Tascam digital desk) and I just can't get an even piano tone, even when all velocities are set to the same value. I've tried all the tricks I know (eg reducing the durations slightly so that notes don't run into each other, removing duplicates and deleting all controllers, including the sustain) but to no avail. Some notes and chords still come out randomly and unmusically louder than others. There's also a ringing overtone on some notes. I've tried the same sequences with Garritan's Steinway (GPO) with Kontakt Player so it seems to be a DP issue rather than M5.

Anybody had this problem?

Thanks

Tony

[FMiguelez]

.

I never heard of this problem.

So are you saying that the sounds come out noticeably uneven, even though you set the same velocity values for all the notes?
And you have no volume or CC#11 at all?

Does it sound like comb-filtering? Maybe you have more than 2 notes playing the sequence. Click and drag any of the suspect notes. Did you find an extra one hidden underneath?

[tonyton]

I think this could be it but do I have to find them all individually? Isn't that what 'remove duplicates is for?

Tony

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If dups are the problem, then you need to find the cause and the solution. Could be a few things. Defective controller, bad MIDI interface, poor technique (it happens!) FMig nailed my first suspect off the bat and it sounds like you confirmed it. Now the trick is tracking down the problem. As far as 'find duplicates' it should find them and then you should be able to delete them. But they have to be EXACT duplicates. If they're off by a little, they're not duplicates according to the software. There may be a setting allowing for ms variations...?

[tonyton]

It seems to be solving part of the problem and I have to confess that my understanding of 'remove duplicates' was perhaps a little naive! Some sections have been MIDI-filed over from Finale which often creates all sorts of weird anomilies but normally I want to humanise these rather than make them more even. There isn't really a MIDI interface involved at this point. Looks as though I may have to go through every single note......

Any thoughts about the ringing overtones?

Tony

[MIDI Life Crisis]

"RInging overtones" are probably caused by two notes playing at once from the same instrument. Essentially you are canceling out the first hit with the second and only the overtones are left ringing. It's called phase cancellation.

[philbrown]

Try DeFlam instead of Remove Duplicates.

[tonyton]

I've just done a bit of experimenting - if I enter a scale and then quantise and then set all notes to the same velocity, some notes (eg d and f above middle c) play more loudly. This happens with real time entry, step entry and mousing in the notes in Quickscribe. But it's not now happening with the Steinway in GPO so perhaps it's a Machfive thing after all (now I've got rid of the duplicates). Is there a way of dealing with it in M5?

[tonyton]

Yup - done deflam. Also now tried quantising releases to make any duplicates exactly the same (which helped a bit I think)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It may well be that the Steinway GPO is "more forgiving" of duplicates and the problem (assuming you have removed the duplicates) could be something else - like a retarded (retarding) MIDI buffer somewhere. Duplicate notes and volume surges with phase cancellation were a problem for me in DP 4 and DP 5 (but not since upgrading to Leopard). M5-2 has been pretty solid as well although I prefer the Garritan Steinway since I am in Finale 2010 much of the time and it's easier to set that up.

I can try the file (or segment of the file) on my system if you are comfortable emailing an offending excerpt to me. PM me for my email address or google my name (MIDI Life Crisis) and it should be obvious how to email me.

[Frodo]

Is there a way of dealing with it in M5?

Some things to consider:

1. Try a different piano sound to see if the problem is still there (like one of M5's pianos). If not, it's in the way the other piano was sampled.

2. You really may not want to have to redo the velocity map in M5--for a sampled piano-- eesh. What you might do, as long as you've narrowed down the problem notes, it might be easier (however tedious) to find the matching velocities for those notes and to reduce them manually.

3. Some keyboards and even some piano VIs offer options of various velocity scaling. This might help keep note entry from the keyboard in check-- that those problem notes don't stick out so much. It takes a bit of tweaking to find the sweet spot without moving the entire range up or down proportionally with the same unevenness, though. Neither am I sure what your specific VIs have to offer in the way of preferences to deal with this... hmm.

4. There are also some options in DP which might be explored-- Region Menu> Change Velocity:

Scale
Compress/Expand
Smooth

[Tonio]

Some sections have been MIDI-filed over from Finale which often creates all sorts of weird anomilies but normally I want to humanise these rather than make them more even.

Tony

Are the imported(?)Finale file sections the problem, or through the whole track?

I've had some issues like this on a SMF(Standard MIDI file). Usually on a piano or bass track. The source SMF was the problem, however I didn't ask the provider what application was used for a collaboration project.

Some controllers have a split velocity curve capability, perhaps you have your MIDI controller unintentionally split with a velocity curve?

T

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've emailed the o/p with an MP3 of a file excerpt he sent me. FWIW, I could NOT open his DP 6 file w/o crashing. Both M5 and Garritan could not find the samples and crashed DP6 every time. I loaded the chunk and was able to play it back fine on my PC2 via MIDI. We'll see what he says when he wakes up (England).

I should also mention that MANY windows opened up before crashing. I mean MANY windows. Having a lot of windows open is not usually a good idea as it can sap system resources. Spare, essential windows are usually a good idea. You can always call up the ones you need.

Also, the file size was 6MB but it was only 57 measures or so of MIDI piano music. That is very inconsistent. It should be much smaller. Even when I loaded the chunk into a new file, the resulting file was 6MB. A new file (blank) is about 92k, so clearly there is 'something else' accounting for the file size. No soundbites, no excessive controller data - yet a 6MB file. Weird. I just did a few 5 minute piano solo scores that came in under 1BM (about half to 3/4 a MB).

So something is going on in his file and I suspect that is the cause of the problem. Sounds like a case for Magic Dave or MOTU techs.

[Frodo]

I just did a few 5 minute piano solo scores that came in under 1BM ....

Hey MLC:

You're not only very helpful, but you are REALLY critical of your own work!!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Oooops! Sharp eye, Mr. F! ROLF!!!