Going CRAZY with Reason 3.05. GRRRRRR!!

[FMiguelez]

To respond to FM's original post, I'm trying to figure out if you are recording MIDI in DP to be triggered by Reason or audio from Reason instruments into DP. Either way I would suggest (maybe contrary to pervious suggestions) creating a mixer in Reason and then creating a mixer "sequencer track". (Create menu). Then you should be able to see all the automation happening in the Reason mixer and delete it, if needs be.

I'm using Reason just as an instrument Rack. I send the MIDI from DP to play Reason's synths exclusively.

I'll try your suggestion. It sounds logical, since obviously, something is sending volume automation to Reason.
Now, I wonder WHAT I did to cause that in the first place... I never recorded any automation
But if I create that automation lane, then I SHOULD see something there...




It was mentioned that having the Keyboard active in Reason can cause problems. I wonder if mine are because of that. I keep turning it on and off.
Perhaps that caused to get unintended CC.

Even if I don't need to finish this project in Reason anymore, I still would like to get to the bottom of this, because this issue will clearly prevent me to even consider using Reason in future projects. Not that I particularly love it, but hey... I bought it, so I might as well try it when needed.

[michkhol]

Wow. That is a very generous offer on your part. Thank you so much, my friend.
Actually, I was going to take you on it, but the client called me and told me not to change anything again. He liked what I sent him (even if doesn't have the Reason instruments he originally wanted)
So I'm out of danger... for now.

But I still would like to get to the bottom of this.

You are welcome

Again, MIDI Monitor is your friend. It can spy on any MIDI port and DP makes all ReWire MIDI ports visible.

[grouse]

I'm using Reason just as an instrument Rack. I send the MIDI from DP to play Reason's synths exclusively.

I'll try your suggestion. It sounds logical, since obviously, something is sending volume automation to Reason.
Now, I wonder WHAT I did to cause that in the first place... I never recorded any automation
But if I create that automation lane, then I SHOULD see something there...

Hmmm...seems like the problem might be the info getting sent to Reason from DP then. One thing's for sure, it's not how things should be so you'll probably find it's some simple setting you were unaware of.
Automation is very smooth and easy in Reason though because it's all internal instruments so it's worth a look. I use Reason quite a bit but mostly just Rewire it through an audio track while making the edits in Reason.

[grouse]

Hey FMiguelez, did you ever sort out this issue you were having? The reason I ask is that I'm having the same thing happen right now as I rewire Reason into Ableton Live. With just one particular volume knob. No automation in either program.
And here I was trying to give you advice!

[Dwetmaster]

I've ran into issues where I didn't realize that the data I recorded in DP got recorded also on a MIDI in Reason... make sure your instruments arent assigned to trakcs in reason. I try to erase any Reason track altogether, leaving only the reason instruments...

I also try to enter my tempo in DP's conductor track to make sure it doesn't get knocked off by Reason 140bpm...

[FMiguelez]

Hey FMiguelez, did you ever sort out this issue you were having? The reason I ask is that I'm having the same thing happen right now as I rewire Reason into Ableton Live. With just one particular volume knob. No automation in either program.
And here I was trying to give you advice!

Hi, Grouse.

To tell you the truth, since I practically never use Reason, I just figured it wouldn't be worth it to waste more time investigating this. I've used it a handful of times since I bought it. I admit my knowledge of it is pretty basic (no wonder I had these issues).

And I admit EVERY time I've tried to use it, I always run into the same stupid thing. Probably that's one of the biggest reasons I don't use Reason very often

But I would like to spend more time with it. For certain styles of music it works great.

Things I've tried to get rid of this "mysterious and not-programmed-by-me" automation:
- Made sure there's no automation on DP for the Reason track (in this case, it was a channel of Reason's mixer). Hell, I don't even have a track for that in DP...
- Made sure there's nothing in Reason's sequencer either. The lane that belongs to the mixer looks EMPTY.
- Deleted R's mixer and did it again from scratch. It worked fine... for five minutes. Then one of the faders started going to another level, no matter where I put the fader manually.

I am SURE this has something to do with the fact that sometimes I forget I'm still in Reason and hit DP commands.
Also, sometimes when I play another instrument from within DP, I will keep hearing some reason instrument play too. Since I don't know much about Reason I just go to the sequencer view, click on the icons until it stops sounding, and back to work.

But my question remains: If I can't see the automation in DP and I can't see it in Reason's lanes, WHERE THE HELL is it?
And I certainly didn't record it myself either. Where did Reason did pick that automation from, when, how, and why?

Let's see if we can figure out this together. Is it happening to you the same way I described?

[FMiguelez]

I've ran into issues where I didn't realize that the data I recorded in DP got recorded also on a MIDI in Reason... make sure your instruments arent assigned to trakcs in reason. I try to erase any Reason track altogether, leaving only the reason instruments...

I see.
There's this little Record icon next to the names in Reason's sequencer. Sometimes I need to make it active (or inactive) in order for Reason to stop duplicating what I'm playing with other synths. I don't remember if I always leave it on of off, but either way, if I accidentally recorded some automation in Reason, should it not be obvious and visible there? It would be only a matter of deleting it, but if I can't see it...

[djc]

FM,

I use Reason and DP a lot and have had a few of your problems but they were always related to how I linked Reason to DP. If I follow the instructions in the DP manual to the letter, I get good, consistent results.

Also note, when you create a new instrument in Reason, it automatically adds a track to the Reason sequencer AND arms that track to record. If you don't disarm it, it will record all kinds of stuff.

Hope this helps.

[grouse]

Also note, when you create a new instrument in Reason, it automatically adds a track to the Reason sequencer AND arms that track to record. If you don't disarm it, it will record all kinds of stuff.

Hope this helps.

Yes, I think this could be the answer. As I said I was only having one parameter on one instrument act oddly. In fact I recorded automation in Reason to stop the madness. In other words, the volume kept jumping up to distorted levels so i recorded automation taking the volume down to override this. What I noticed after that was the automation (green circle) in reason was disappearing after exactly 4 bars and bumping up again.
I just think it's a bug. But I did find a way to stop it. I deactivated the instrument (by clicking on the record button in the sequencer window) and everything went along as normal.
So it seems you just need to deactivate all the Reason tracks unless you're actually playing or recording in Reason. I'll see how I get on making sure to do this.

[FMiguelez]

.

Good. I'll try that next time I get a chance. I'll report back here then. And I also need to take a close look at the MIDI monitor spy, suggested earlier too.

Thanks!

[amplidood]

What parameters are changing? DP sends current mixer data (volume/pan) to MIDI devices whether the data is actually in the track or not....

[grouse]

What parameters are changing? DP sends current mixer data (volume/pan) to MIDI devices whether the data is actually in the track or not....

This is true and is causing the problems I think. It's a case of too many cooks. There are too many volume knobs fighting for domination.
If I may address another matter briefly though. For those who are having the problems with projects jumping to Reason's tempo, here's the explanation from the DP virtual manual:

When Digital Performer is operating under tempo slider mode, when you first open a the ReWire synth file that has a different tempo setting, Digital Performer’s tempo slider will jump to the tempo of that the ReWire synth file. If desired, you can then re-adjust the tempo in either program.
If you have Digital Performer’s tempo slider set to Conductor Track mode, Digital Performer’s Conductor track governs the tempo and the tempo cannot be changed in the ReWire synth.

To get back to the other issue: The volume slider on the MIDI track in DP's mixer affects the volume knob on the Reason device (say the Subtractor for instance). This may be naive but I did not know this.
I thought this volume was independent. It actually makes sense that it's not. The mixer's MIDI strip would have all the parameters on the instrument visible if it could physically fit them but it is treated like an audio track (visually at least) and shows only the volume and pan knobs. The pan knob doesn't really do anything as instruments don't have pan knobs.
If you open up a DP instrument you will observe the same thing. I opened up "Bassline" and messed around with the volume knob in both the instruments MIDI track on the mixer and on the instrument itself. The results seem pretty random. The volume on the instrument will physically jump to the changes made in the mixer but when it's the other way around the mixer slider stays put but you can HEAR the change. Sometimes after that the instrument volume will bounce back the the mixer's level.
I'd like the instrument to always be in control I must say. This is not the case and I think it's been causing all the problems.
My problem was exacerbated in Ableton Live (5.0) because Live doesn't have a volume slider for MIDI tracks but still seems to send out a volume level message.
I think once you know what's going on it's workable but not ideal.
In the past, I've mostly treated Reason in DP as audio only and done the MIDI edits in Reason and I think I'll stick to doing it this way.

[amplidood]

Good idea. I gave up on using dp to control Reason because of all the MIDI flakiness. Plus, the timing was always jittery and never accurate when sending MIDI from DP to Reason. It's not that everything has to be precisely quantized...I just want what I play to be played back as I played it.