Should I or should I not consider MOTU

[gpLeroy]

I have just had a difficult time with a couple of Presonus FP10's and have returned them to the music store here in the midwest USA. There is no local support, nor dealer in this area that sells MOTU. However, the dealer who handled the FP10's said that he would look into handling MOTU. So I am looking into MOTU products. I have been looking at the 8pre to get started, even though I have been using the Presonus FireBox and learning the ins and outs with it. I was wondering, is there anything I should take into consideration about the PC I am using before making a decision to run with MOTU. Thanks

[Mark S]

what are you trying to do with an audio interface? The sort of studio you wish to eventually build will have some bearing on how I answer.

If I may read between the lines:

If you were trying to link your Presonus units together via firewire you were pretty well hosed (never got that to work, huh. No sync?) without using 3rd party firewire drivers (link available in another thread here) No one can do that without lots of handstands or connecting the units optically due to a Microsoft error in their 1394 bus drivers that came about with XP SP2 and is still not corrected in Vista. The 3rd party drivers are working here however.

[gpLeroy]

Thanks for the reply Mark S

The thing I would like to do is to get 16 channels that I can record at one time - Using the PC I have now. This is why I was looking at the MOTU 8pre. It is my understanding these can be daisy chained together. I am using Windows XP Home, Version 2002, Service Pack 3, Celeron(R) CPU 3.20 GHZ, 1.50 GB of Ram, and I have disabled the Firewire port that came with it and I installed a new Firewire card with a Texas Insturment chip.

Right now I am using CuBase LE - I have been using the Presonus FireBox for about two years learning what I could, I've had no problems. Now I would like to to move on to something bigger and better. ( The 45 day nightmare with the NEW FP10's, little or no tech support from Presonus was more than I could handle so back to the Music store they went. ) I would like to use a different software also - I'm looking just don't know what to do yet. Apple looks really good but that would mean a big change, and the money just isn't there.

Back to the MOTU 8pre - I'm not familiar with the term ADAT, nor what it really does. This is why I thought about daisy chaining the 8pre's. Then taking the time to research this ADAT thing and move on with it in the future. What ever it is that I do I know that I need to move slow and take the time to learn about the hardware and software. It looked like I couldn't get tech support on the site at MOTU without a registered piece of equipment so I decided to start here asking questions and getting aquainted with others who love this industry.

I really appreciate your response to my question - and look forward to changes or thoughts you may have - I have played for over 45 years and Country, Rock and Gospel. I'm now trying to support others get started who don't get to record. The industry is so much fun and the people are just great. Thank You Mark S. - Le Roy

[Mark S]

Thanks for the reply Mark S

The thing I would like to do is to get 16 channels that I can record at one time - Using the PC I have now. This is why I was looking at the MOTU 8pre. It is my understanding these can be daisy chained together. I am using Windows XP Home, Version 2002, Service Pack 3, Celeron(R) CPU 3.20 GHZ, 1.50 GB of Ram, and I have disabled the Firewire port that came with it and I installed a new Firewire card with a Texas Insturment chip.

Right now I am using CuBase LE - I have been using the Presonus FireBox for about two years learning what I could, I've had no problems. Now I would like to to move on to something bigger and better. ( The 45 day nightmare with the NEW FP10's, little or no tech support from Presonus was more than I could handle so back to the Music store they went. ) I would like to use a different software also - I'm looking just don't know what to do yet. Apple looks really good but that would mean a big change, and the money just isn't there.

Back to the MOTU 8pre - I'm not familiar with the term ADAT, nor what it really does. This is why I thought about daisy chaining the 8pre's. Then taking the time to research this ADAT thing and move on with it in the future. What ever it is that I do I know that I need to move slow and take the time to learn about the hardware and software. It looked like I couldn't get tech support on the site at MOTU without a registered piece of equipment so I decided to start here asking questions and getting aquainted with others who love this industry.

I really appreciate your response to my question - and look forward to changes or thoughts you may have - I have played for over 45 years and Country, Rock and Gospel. I'm now trying to support others get started who don't get to record. The industry is so much fun and the people are just great. Thank You Mark S. - Le Roy

LeRoy:

As far as daisy chaining goes: As I said earlier Microsoft broke the drivers with XP SP2. I fought my units for 8 months until recently on this forum RealRoach posted 3rd party drivers that work. I posted the link in the driver sticky for the Hardware and Windows page. They are working for me. Just to be clear NO manufacturer is getting daisy chaining in firewire to work: not even RME, without much much work. That being said, the third party drivers are working for me. Your results may vary but so far the general consensus is good.

The fall back position is to connect optically. This is most often done optically, with fiber optic 'cables'. It's relatively easy to to, but here are the limitations. This link will give you some idea of how to accomplish that:

http://www.harmoniccycle.com/hc/sound-motu_driver.htm

First, 16 channels: you get to decide if you want to work in 44.1/48 or 88.2/96 khz sample rate. Because of the limitation of the protocol, with the standard i/o on an interface for adat you'll only get 8 channels out at 44.1/48 khz. If you record at 88.2/96 you only get 4 channels per i/o connection. NOW, the Motu 8pre and MkIII units have TWO optical i/o's so by connecting them all you get your 16. So with 2 8pre's you'd be good to go this way. One unit (the one set as optical master) connects to the computer via firewire.

Inputs: the 8pre's only have mic pre in, no line in. I hate working with direct boxes, they always seem to add too much noise. Pairing an 8pre with another interface that has line in and two optical outs would offer some versatility. (an 828 mkIII or 896 MkIII in Motu's gear, eg.) Presents another problem though. Even though you are using the same driver for both units you have two driver instances so you will not be able to use ASIO as a result. (Something you need to know for Cubase. I use Sonar so I just switch into WDM and all is good) The other alternatives for ASIO are two 8pre's or to connect optically. (see a trend here?)

The optical i/o are the clock in this configuration. This can be unstable unless the units (and the light pipes are short as possible) are decent quality or there is a word clock connection. My 896hd has this, the 8pre does not. Still, so far it's working for me when I connect optically. (short pipes)

My Motu's never gave me any problems until I tried linking two The hardware is decent and good sounding too. However there are some picky things for set up that apply to all audio systems (even read these same things in the Presonus forum) TI or Agere/Lucent firewire set, NO PCI EXPRESS firewire card. Get rid of all peripherals you don't need, the same with all un-needed services. TWO physical hard drives (both as master if you have IDE) No big video card unless you run Vista which offloads processor work to the video card. I may have missed a couple.

MAC? Limited software, that you get to buy new versions of for most every OS upgrade. More expensive hardware for machine capacity. (and they are now all pc under the hood anyway) Like PC's, they are not problem free. I spend enough time looking through those forums to see that. And like you I have too much invested in Windows to make that switch. If I had gone that way 23 years ago when I got my first PC, maybe. And as the industry catches up to the 64 bit environment the 90% market share pc has will continue.

Now,for MOTU support: At least Presonus support people visit that forum. Motu is widely and famously known for their bad support, especially where Windows is concerned. If they were only neglectful it would be bad enough but they are arrogant and condescending often without having basic knowledge of their own hardware. It was only last month that they acknowledged the daisy chain issue that has been around since the release of SP2.

However their hardware is good and stable once set up. I rely on this forum and the hardware section on the Cakewalk forum for my support. (recently I was told by MOTU to upgrade to a driver that is known not to work. When I asked, "has it been fixed?", I was told "no, but that will be coming". Ultimately, the upgrade would have done me no good nor fix my situation and only would have added problems. And this isn't my most banal example) I wish it were different but you probably had better support with Presonus.

Still, I know of some very reputable DAW builders that recommend MOTU because of the quality of the hardware and the stability. They say the same things about MOTU support, and their business depends on them in some great measure: caveat emptor. Just trying to give you some idea of your learning curve if you go with MOTU. Not impossible but perhaps a little daunting. Your only other choices for the quality are twice the money,...

Good luck

[gpLeroy]

Thanks Mark S and dmcmoran,

I really appreciate your inputs - best to you both. I think I'll take a little longer to look around even though I don't see much out there that is in my budget - so to the piggy back we go saving. I do beleive I will invest in new software and stick with this FireBox unit for now - atleast it is working. I will be back.

Thanks so much guys

Le Roy

[Mark S]

So as a final note let me condense: I'm trying to do something very similar to what you are. If I had to do it all over again I would design my system totally optical connected with one firewire connection to the computer. With this it doesn't really matter which unit you use as long as the one connected to the computer works well with the computer.

I'm only going on about this because I wish someone would have done so with me. I'm close to 2k into gear and I still think I need to get rid of one unit for another just so I get the stability I feel comfortable with to sell a project. Time may tell on this. I'll be back here once I get my mobile rig out for a good test run with results.

Take your time, the gear will not go backwards.

best, Mark

[Iceblade]

If you are going to be using Windows with this gear, run as far away in the opposite direction as you can from anything that bears the MOTU moniker.

[Mark S]

If you are going to be using Windows with this gear, run as far away in the opposite direction as you can from anything that bears the MOTU moniker.

Those who will read my posts here will know I am no defender of Motu with regards to how they run their company, treat their customers or support their products.

Having said that, the hardware is superior and works reliably. I would place it between RME on the high end, and Presonus on the high end of low.

It works in windows environment but takes some serious paying attention to hardware you are connecting to. It is a serious caveat emptor.

Ask questions, many questions. Before you buy not after,...

[Iceblade]

You're right, Mark S. I fell victim to the "buy then cry" part of the equation, hence my angst. Just as an FYI. I went back through the install process, used the AVT FW driver and rolled back the MOTU drivers to the 3.6.7.4 and now "knock on wood" it seems to be MUCH more stable. I have been playing the playlist of short clips that used to give the Traveler •••• fits and it has been playing for about 10 mins with nary a glitch, squeak or pop. I'm scared to say it, but perhaps this combo of things fixed it. THANKS for your help. I'll post this to the other two threads on this topic as well.

[galileoslastdays]

So far I've run into none of the issues, I just blew out a preamp. I think there was just an issue with my phantom power, but it happens.

Keys to my success have been:
- Windows XP (32-bit) - NOT vista, NOT 64-bit.
- Firewire Card with a Ti chipset - this is a huge deal and I see a lot of people have issues when using non Ti cards.
- ADAT for connecting 828 to 8pre - don't mess around with bridging any other way.

I've used both Reaper and Sonar with success. My only complaint would be the learning curve on routing channels for unique monitoring...what a pain in the ass. I'm an engineer (software and electrical) for God's sake and it took a lot of effort to get things configured.

When my 828 gives it up for good, I'll look into RMEs, since that seems to get the best recommendations, but as of now (issues aside), the MOTUs work without cracks, pops, or other weirdness. If I change my tune some day, I'll definitely post about it though.

[tgle1977]

Hey there quite new on here, as a matter of fact this is my first post. As you can tell I did not go to Motunation before i bought a 1296 and a 308 to run on windows.

I thought "Motu? hmmm... they've been around for good- they must know what they're doing."

Apparently that was a wee bit on the naive side methinks. Well in for a penny in for a pound and chase your good money with your bad. That being said though my 324 system is the least stable thing I've run since a first generation delta card on cubase 5 vst32, At least it runs most of the time. See I have no windows firewire driver to lay the blame upon. Could it be my chipset? I'm running an AMD energy efficient xp5600+ on an asus m2ne under windows xp service pack 3 with 2 gigs of ram and two hard drives one sata and my c drive is ide . The software is Sonar 7 producer, FL studios 8 producer, Cubase le, audacity and wavelab lite. are the wdm drivers or the asio drivers the way to go? I also use some proprietary MIDI drivers: motu micro lite express, yamaha motif, korg padkontrol.

[1nput0utput]

Hey there quite new on here, as a matter of fact this is my first post. As you can tell I did not go to Motunation before i bought a 1296 and a 308 to run on windows.

I thought "Motu? hmmm... they've been around for good- they must know what they're doing."

Apparently that was a wee bit on the naive side methinks. Well in for a penny in for a pound and chase your good money with your bad. That being said though my 324 system is the least stable thing I've run since a first generation delta card on cubase 5 vst32, At least it runs most of the time. See I have no windows firewire driver to lay the blame upon. Could it be my chipset? I'm running an AMD energy efficient xp5600+ on an asus m2ne under windows xp service pack 3 with 2 gigs of ram and two hard drives one sata and my c drive is ide . The software is Sonar 7 producer, FL studios 8 producer, Cubase le, audacity and wavelab lite. are the wdm drivers or the asio drivers the way to go? I also use some proprietary MIDI drivers: motu micro lite express, yamaha motif, korg padkontrol.

The problem is probably the PCI-324 card. I wouldn't expect it to work very well with most recent computers.

Generally speaking the PCI-324 card is not compatible with most PC motherboards manufactured since 2002.

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... dio-system

[tgle1977]

cool, I'll look in to getting some variant of the 424 as my mobo can handle pci version 2.2 (which is the older version like the 324 oddly enough) pcix and pcie) i as i right this am unsure if my non videocard pcie slot is 1x or 4x, does that matter to the 424 pcie card?