Syncing Timepiece AV without using Parallel port [RESOLVED]

[blue_thunder]

Hey All, I'm new to the forum and pretty new to MIDI. I just bought an old Motu MIDI Timepiece AV Parallel interface with hopes of being able to sync Mackie Ultramix to my tape machine (Otari MX-70 16 track). My PC is running XP and I was able to get the Ultramix to operate using the MIDI ports on my Emu 1212m soundcard. My soundcard only has 1 MIDI in and 1 MIDI out, which is required to hook up the Ultramix. However, there is no SMPTE in or out to hook up my tape machine. I've tried hooking up the Motu to the parallel port on my PC and installing the drivers from the Motu website, but I'm having a hell of a time getting it to work. I've scoured the web and found alot of information on how to make these things work with XP, but it seems like a huge pain in the ass. So, in an effort to save myself some headache, I'm trying to by pass the parallel connection on the motu.

Here's my idea (please tell me if this is completely ludacris or not): I'd like to use the Motu with just the front panel controls and not even connect the parallel port. I'll hook my tape machine to the SMPTE in & out jacks, and I'll run a MIDI cable from the MIDI out of the Ultramix to MIDI In 1 of the Motu. I'll run a MIDI cable from MIDI out 1 of the Motu to the MIDI in of the Ultramix. Then I'll run a MIDI cable from MIDI out 2 of the Motu to the MIDI in on my Emu soundcard and a MIDI cable from the MIDI out on the Emu to MIDI in 2 on the Motu. I would then use the front panel controls to route MIDI in 1 to MIDI out 2 and MIDI in 2 to MIDI out 1. I could then set the smpte destination to cable 2 and they would be in sync, right?

Your advice/input is greatly appreciated.

[James Steele]

I'm not an expert, but the for this to have any hope of working you're going to need to be able to connect up the MTP AV to your computer and have it functioning correctly as a MIDI interface with your DAW software. I'm a Mac user so I don't know what sort of software comes with the MTP/AV as far as a control panel, but Mac users have something called Clockworks.

For you to sync your tape machine, you'd need to stripe a track of the 16 track with LTC (Longitudinal Time Code) aka SMPTE (which you can do from the MTP/AV) then route the output of that track to the SMPTE in on the MTP/AV, and then set a start time for your project in your DAW and have it slave to timecode from the MTP/AV. Your ultramix will then need to be responding to MIDI messages recorded and played back from your DAW as it is synchronized to the tape machine. You'll have to then have everything slaving from the multitrack machine which will be the master. Hopefully someone with experience with the MTP/AV on the PC side of things can help out here.

[blue_thunder]

I wasn't planning on using a DAW, just the tape machine and the Ultramix. I was hoping that by setting the SMPTE Destination to the MIDI in of my soundcard, I wouldn't have to bother with the parallel connection. I've read many posts about people having issues using the parallel devices on PCs running XP, and I'm trying to avoid that.

Also, I'm not sure if I can even get it to work with my PC. The button for switching between Mac & PC doesn't seem to be working right. It shows that it should be pushed in for PC & out for Mac, but it doesn't stay pushed in. Plus neither the PC nor the Mac leds come on.

[James Steele]

Well from what I just read over on the Mackie site, you do need to have a computer involved in the mix in order to run the Mackie software. So it means it's pretty much necessary to have the MIDI interface connected to the computer. The basic idea is you'll still have to stripe a track on your multitrack with SMPTE, then route the out of that track to the SMPTE audio in jack on the MTP, then the MTP will translate this to MTC to your Mackie automation software and then when you locate and play the multitrack, the automation should follow a long. But from what I understand YOU MUST have a MIDI interface connected to the computer which is running the Mackie Ultramix software.

[blue_thunder]

Right, I've already got the Ultramix software installed on my computer and have run it using the MIDI in & out on my Emu soundcard and sync'd it to Ableton Live. It worked great, but I need to sync it to my tape machine, which requires SMPTE. I just want to be able to put the MTP in between the ultramix hardware and the MIDI ports on my Emu soundcard, which is just a simple patch that should be easy to do using the standalone MTP. The MTP should be able to covert the SMPTE from the tape machine into MTC and send it to the MIDI channel without being connected to the parallel port, right? I thought that's why the MTP let you set the SMPTE destination.

I'll go ahead and give this a try tonight and see if it actually works. If it doesn't, I'll probably be on here asking for help on how to the parallel connection up. Thanks

[James Steele]

Right, I've already got the Ultramix software installed on my computer and have run it using the MIDI in & out on my Emu soundcard and sync'd it to Ableton Live. It worked great, but I need to sync it to my tape machine, which requires SMPTE. I just want to be able to put the MTP in between the ultramix hardware and the MIDI ports on my Emu soundcard, which is just a simple patch that should be easy to do using the standalone MTP. The MTP should be able to covert the SMPTE from the tape machine into MTC and send it to the MIDI channel without being connected to the parallel port, right? I thought that's why the MTP let you set the SMPTE destination.

I'll go ahead and give this a try tonight and see if it actually works. If it doesn't, I'll probably be on here asking for help on how to the parallel connection up. Thanks

I don't know what to tell you as I don't know enough about the MTP/AV off the top of my head to know if what you're trying to do is possible. I have a newer USB version of that interface. You seem to be trying to get the MTP/AV to convert the incoming SMPTE to MTC and have it automatically send this out one of the MIDI outputs which you will connect to your Emu soundcard. I'm not sure that's possible. It might be that it is only possible to transmit MTC "virtually" to software via the parallel connection of the interface.

[blue_thunder]

Ok, I can't get this thing to work without the parallel port. Can anybody tell me how to get it set up in XP?

[James Steele]

Ok, I can't get this thing to work without the parallel port. Can anybody tell me how to get it set up in XP?

I'd suggest also posting a new topic like "How to connect MTP/AV parallel with Windows XP." You may need to download drivers and other software from the MOTU site also. I'm not a Windows user (at least as far as music stuff goes) so I really can't help there. I'm not even 100% positive that you can't do what you originally wanted to do, but it just sounds like it may not be possible from what I know.

[James Steele]

I think you should be able to do this. You have to download parallel MIDI drivers from MOTU's site. Check this out:

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... 2083364902

How can I ensure functionality with my MOTU parallel MIDI interface under Windows 2000 or Windows XP?

This document refers to the PC Flyer, Pocket Express, parallel Micro Express, parallel Express XT, and parallel MIDI Timepiece AV.

MOTU parallel MIDI drivers have been developed and tested for full compatibility within Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Before Installing the drivers for your MOTU MIDI interface, you will need to make a few changes to the LPT port and BIOS settings of your computer. If you are unfamiliar with the BIOS of your copmputer, you should contact the manufacturer of your motherboard or consult the user manual for your motherboard.

The LPT settings are located within the Device manager. First, go to the properties section for the Printer Port, which is found in the Ports (COM&LPT) directory of the Windows Device Manager. Now click on the Port Settings tab and make sure that the option "Use any interrupt assigned to the port" is selected. Also, make sure that the "Legacy" option is turned off and that LPT1 is selected. Finally, you will need to check the parallel port mode in your BIOS. We recommend choosing either Standard mode (sometimes labeled as SPP), Normal, or Bi-directional mode. These BIOS options are usually found under a section labeled "Intergraded Peripherals". It is also recommended installing the LPT refresh utility from the MOTU MIDI driver setup for testing and confirming communication of Windows and your interface. The LPT refresh utility allows you to scan your MOTU parallel interface, verifying communication between the computer and the interface.

A note for Windows 2000 users

Windows 2000 imposes a 10 port limitation with MIDI. For example, if you have 2 Express XT's connected to your Windows 2000 computer, only 10 out of the 16 ports will publish within the operating system and your MIDI software. This limitation is not present within Windows XP.

[James Steele]

I don't know if you've registered at MOTU's site... it might be required to download the drivers, but there is a parallel version of the driver available... it probably comes with clockworks. There's also a downloadable PDF manual for Clockworks available as well. The parallel drivers date back to Sept. 2004, but I would think they might still work fine.

Here's the description:

WDM MIDI Drivers for MOTU USB and Parallel Interfaces
WDM Drivers for MOTU USB compatible with all MOTU USB & parallel MIDI interfaces including Fastlane, mico lite, Express 128, micro express, Express XT and MTP AV. USB drivers are Windows ME, 2000 and XP compatible. Clockworks DTP support has been recently added. Refer to Clockworks manual link below.

Unzip and run installer.

Download Clockworks Manuals

[blue_thunder]

Ok, I've managed to get the MTP AV to communicate through the Parallel port on my computer and it appears to be working correctly through clockworks. I ended up having to hard wire the PC/Mac switch into the PC position because the switch was broken and apparently wasn't able to communicate with my pc. That's all squared away and I was able to stripe my tape with SMPTE and sync it up with my automation. Only problem I'm having is the SMPTE keeps coming unlocked and the MTP stops sending MTC for a second. It usually only drops out for a second and then syncs back up, but it's kicking my automation out of record mode which is very annoying and causes my audio levels to jump when it is out of sync. I've read through the clockworks manual and it seems like I'm doing eveything correctly. I've got the freewheeling set to 32 frames, which helps, but the SMPTE is dropping out for longer than that. I've listened to the SMPTE track and it sounds like a strong signal and I can't hear any audible glitches. The meter on my reel to reel shows a pretty consistent level on the SMPTE track, with only a slight waver of about 1/2 Db here and there, which is common on edge tracks of a tape machine. I'm not sure what the best level to record and playback the SMPTE is. I've tried recording the signal at both high & low volumes and playing it back through my mixer and adjusting the level that I'm sending to the MTP, but no matter what level I use I still get these drop outs. Can someone please help me figure this out, as I'm completely stumped?

[James Steele]

Ok, I've managed to get the MTP AV to communicate through the Parallel port on my computer and it appears to be working correctly through clockworks. I ended up having to hard wire the PC/Mac switch into the PC position because the switch was broken and apparently wasn't able to communicate with my pc. That's all squared away and I was able to stripe my tape with SMPTE and sync it up with my automation. Only problem I'm having is the SMPTE keeps coming unlocked and the MTP stops sending MTC for a second. It usually only drops out for a second and then syncs back up, but it's kicking my automation out of record mode which is very annoying and causes my audio levels to jump when it is out of sync. I've read through the clockworks manual and it seems like I'm doing eveything correctly. I've got the freewheeling set to 32 frames, which helps, but the SMPTE is dropping out for longer than that. I've listened to the SMPTE track and it sounds like a strong signal and I can't hear any audible glitches. The meter on my reel to reel shows a pretty consistent level on the SMPTE track, with only a slight waver of about 1/2 Db here and there, which is common on edge tracks of a tape machine. I'm not sure what the best level to record and playback the SMPTE is. I've tried recording the signal at both high & low volumes and playing it back through my mixer and adjusting the level that I'm sending to the MTP, but no matter what level I use I still get these drop outs. Can someone please help me figure this out, as I'm completely stumped?

Hmmm... that is a puzzler. Is there ANY chance that you're using any sort of noise reduction on the tape striped with SMPTE. Also, not sure that it matters, but A) did you stripe it using the MTP/AV as the audio source of the SMPTE and secondly did you stripe it with the same frame rate and drop/non-drop format as you set the software to follow?

I'm also not sure but I wonder if somewhere there's an internal setting in the MTP/AV to set the audio input for the SMPTE to +4 or -10db? I found a lot of times more moderate levels can be better and also prevents any bleed to adjacent tracks.

Hope you get this solved. At least you're most of the way there now it seems. I hope your MTP isn't defective or anything like that.

[blue_thunder]

Ok, I figured it out. When I was striping the tape, I was running the signal through one of my mixer's aux outs because my reel to reel is set up for +9 recording & the signal straight from the MTP was too hot. So, I ran it through the mixer so I could lower the levels. I thought I had checked all the other channels to make sure no outside signals were routing to that aux send, but I guess there was one that was turned up a hair. I guess whenever that signal got high enough, it would interfere with the smpte, eventhough it wasn't loud enough to be audible when I listened to the SMPTE on track 16. It works awesome now. Even with the freewheeling turned off, the SMPTE never drops out. Thanks for all your help. Hopefully I'll be familiar enough with this stuff eventually, that I can start sharing my knowledge with others. This forum rocks!!!!

[James Steele]

Ok, I figured it out. When I was striping the tape, I was running the signal through one of my mixer's aux outs because my reel to reel is set up for +9 recording & the signal straight from the MTP was too hot. So, I ran it through the mixer so I could lower the levels. I thought I had checked all the other channels to make sure no outside signals were routing to that aux send, but I guess there was one that was turned up a hair. I guess whenever that signal got high enough, it would interfere with the smpte, eventhough it wasn't loud enough to be audible when I listened to the SMPTE on track 16. It works awesome now. Even with the freewheeling turned off, the SMPTE never drops out. Thanks for all your help. Hopefully I'll be familiar enough with this stuff eventually, that I can start sharing my knowledge with others. This forum rocks!!!!

Hey, that's excellent that you found the problem. Yeah... hate it when that happens that something else was routed to that aux. That totally makes sense. It should be pretty rock solid if you striped it cleanly. You might, if you have time experiment with just how LOW you can record the SMPTE on that tape track. You don't necessarily have to hit it really hard and as low as possible while still being able to lock up is best as you'll lessen the chance of any bleed to adjacent tracks! Any way congrats!