How can I bring up a vocal during mastering?

[Larry Mal]

Before I go any further with this, it's for a class, I'm not charging anybody. Having said that, I have a project I'm working on that my main complaint is that the vocal is buried in the mix. I've tried a few things to bring it up, EQ'ing the vocal range- up to about 1k- on a duplicate track and compressing the master out (which these songs really need). I've also been doing some parallel compression, multiband compression, and even outputting the two tracks as .R and .L, reversing the phase on them and trying to get at the center by putting those alongside the stereo mix on its own track. Someone showed me that technique, I'm not sure I'm really doing it correctly- if someone here could refresh me that would be great.

Anybody have any suggestions or techniques they like to use? I'd love some suggestions, thanks in advance, L

[Frodo]

Generally speaking, I always give my mastering engineer a couple of mixes of everything-- vocals +/- 2 dB or so. The best thing would be if you had another mix to work with.

But sometimes a multi-band comp set to the vocal range can help. The danger is that it can press everything else in the mix within the vocal range forward as well, defeating your purpose.

Another multi-band comp or EQ approach would be to limit or roll off just *some* of the bass (if any) in the track. Bass can take up a lot of space in a mix, and lightening up on the bass might just be enough to let the vocal come through. Are the highs also competing? Just a thought.

But, if the bass is sitting where it ought to be, the problem could just be that there are too many other things within the range of the vocal competing for attention.

I still lean towards having another mix available-- even one with the vocals on separate stems.

Just some thoughts. Others wiser than I might have some ideas to offer.

[dave pine]

there's a new waves plug called center, which might help you out, i haven't tried it yet, but i'm sure you can demo it for free.

[Larry Mal]

That's a great idea, and I was going to do it, but got too lazy to find my iLok for it... maybe tomorrow. Thanks, L

[Armageddon]

T-RackS plug (at least 1.x, which is what I use) has a lot of settings that bring out the midrange and focus the center. In fact, you can go through a lot of the component presets (not the suite presets) and find comp or limiter settings (even a few EQ settings) that are specific to "more vocal". I usually load a T-RackS component in each of the first four slots of Peak's plugs during the mastering phase, EQ, then comp, then limiter, then clipper (then put an L2 in the final slot, just for the IDR), and mix and match different presets to find ones that go together and bring out the best elements of the mix. In my case, I tend to pick the presets that are most transparent, since I mix, test master, then remix to get everything up to speed, and it's really easy to get "too hot" with T-RackS, but you'll likely find one that puts the elements you want front and center.

[davedempsey]

Center is a great plug but there's a limit to what you can achieve with it. Other events, such as kick drum and bass guitar would normally be panned centre and would therefore tend to be enhanced when you chase more vocal level. Any improvements you make with MS work will touch other events, so you're immediately involved in compromise. Frodo's suggestion of alternate mixes with various vocal levels is excellent advice and is ultimately the best approach - go to the mastering house with options and you'll end up with a superior result. Stem mixes are also a good idea, but you will see the billing increase.

[Larry Mal]

I hadn't even noticed that the reply was from Frodo! Welcome back, my friend... thanks for the help.

[Frodo]

I hadn't even noticed that the reply was from Frodo! Welcome back, my friend... thanks for the help.

Cheers, Larry. Sorry I couldn't have been more helpful. That Waves Center plugin sounds like just the ticket.

[danika]

Just create a center channel (Voxengo's freebie MSED is good for doing that) and use EQ.

[Larry Mal]

That Voxengo seems like what I'm looking for... I also tried a demo of the RNDigital Detailer, which was OK. It seemed like a good mastering limiter with a stereo enhancer, as well as a multiband split that will allow some fine tuning. Not bad. I'll give Voxengo a try later and let you all know what I come up with. I've been wanting to try something of theirs anyway, I'm in the market for plug ins. Thanks, L

[David Polich]

Ozone 4 features mid-side processing for EQ, comp/limiter/expander/maximizer/stereo
widener/multi-band exciter. You can have independent settings for all the modules,
simulatenously. This means you can treat the center of your mix and the sides of the
mix independently, for each module, and for each module you can specify how
wide your center is.

The time-limited demo is fully functional and is a free download from Izotope's
website:
http://www.izotope.com.

I agree that the best way to beef up the vocal is to make a mix with a louder vocal.

[Larry Mal]

I've been kicking around picking up Ozone... it doesn't cost anything really. But then again, I already have T-Racks 3, which will probably be about the same quality, or so I think out of ignorance. Maybe I'll download the demo. I'm definitely picking up Rx tomorrow.

And like I say, this is a school project (hence the student prices which is what I mean when I say Ozone "doesn't cost anything"- $125) so I'm sort of working within artificial parameters, and they are that I can't have the stems or the project mix... in reality I have both. If I really wanted, and still may, I'd open up the Pro Tools mix and frankly, compress the vocals and seat them right front and center... and louder. But that would mean I would have to buy some lame M-Audio interface since I went from a G5 to an Intel Mac Pro, and my PCI soundcard was unable to move along with it. So I'd have to spend $100 on a M-Audio dongle, basically, and deal with whatever new hassles Digidesign has come up with to thwart my ability to use their program... it's hard to not find a better way to spend a couple of days and $100. But one day I'll do it.

I tried the Voxengo job and it's pretty cool to have for free, that's for sure. Except for how the "knobs" work I like it. I've been looking at some of their stuff and this makes me think it would be a good idea to look again. But it still isn't magically doing what I am using it for- bringing up the vocals in the mastering stage. I am beginning to think that it would have to be done in the mix and not at this stage, at least is doesnt seem possible for my novice self to do it. Nothing is helped by the fact that this is a busy mix- three guitars, two drummers, glockenspiel, trumpets and other horns at times... how am I gonna get the vocals front and center with compression and EQ now? There's only so much I can do at this point, I'd really just request the stems and move from there at this point.

Thanks for all the suggestions, keep them coming if you have any, I'll try them all, there's still four more weeks until I have to hand anything in.

[Grigri]

Just an idea...
If you still have access to the multitrack session, bring the vocal track in your mastering project, time align it with the mix and add a little volume of it to your mix.

Hope that helps

David

[Tim]

[quote="Grigri"]Just an idea...
If you still have access to the multitrack session, bring the vocal track in your mastering project, time align it with the mix and add a little volume of it to your mix.

If it can't be aligned sample accurate, running the overlay through an L/R delay or ER verb @ 100% wet could help bring it up a couple db, though it would of course change the vocal 'sound'.

[Larry Mal]

I did think about that, actually, but for some reason it didn't sound right and I gave up. I asked the man who mixed it if he used pitch correction and he said no, so I have no idea what's going on, but it was either the wrong take or something. So I gave up, at least for now. Good idea though.