6.02 getting confused: me or it?

[EMRR]

Might be time to trash a bunch of stuff, might be a buggy thing. I have no idea.

Today I tracked about 10 songs with a band, separate DP session for each song, all in a folder together. From song 2 on, the audio files continued to write to the song 1 audio folder. If I merge any files, they then appear in the correct folder, but otherwise a new song with it's own session and audio folder sits with an empty audio folder. Had the same thing happen on a session about a month ago, also 6.02. Never seen such behavior before, and have probably only tracked 3 sessions to date in 6.02, all other work being sessions migrated from 5.13. So that's 2 out of 3 funky.

Suggestions or clues?

[philbrown]

Might be time to trash a bunch of stuff, might be a buggy thing. I have no idea.

Today I tracked about 10 songs with a band, separate DP session for each song, all in a folder together. From song 2 on, the audio files continued to write to the song 1 audio folder. If I merge any files, they then appear in the correct folder, but otherwise a new song with it's own session and audio folder sits with an empty audio folder. Had the same thing happen on a session about a month ago, also 6.02. Never seen such behavior before, and have probably only tracked 3 sessions to date in 6.02, all other work being sessions migrated from 5.13. So that's 2 out of 3 funky.

Suggestions or clues?

I'm a bit confused by the first sentence. When you say 'session' I don't know if you mean an entire DP project folder with the DP file and associated Audio Files folder, or do you mean just the DP file itself? So do you have 10 complete project folders each with an Audio folder all inside another folder, or do you have 10 DP FILES and 10 Audio Folders loose in one enclosing folder?

If you could use standard DP terms like "Project Folder" it would help get you some help.

Cheers
Phil

[EMRR]

Good question. Each song is it's own project, yes. 10 complete project folders each with an Audio folder all inside another folder. All audio files writing to the first of the created audio folders, in the first project folder. All other audio folders in all other project folders sitting empty, though DP files/etc are in the correct project folders.

I am using a template, and wonder if the audio file write location is somehow erroneously part of the template.

[bayswater]

I am using a template, and wonder if the audio file write location is somehow erroneously part of the template.

I think that's the answer. I was just looking on my laptop which I use for quick tests etc with DP. I've created dozens of small test projects. all starting from the same template, They are all in one folder with different names, and all the audio files are in one folder.

[FMiguelez]

.

Press Shift-A. Check the mini-menu for the "Set Take Folder". It sounds like somehow, DP got confussed and thougth it should put all the audio files from all the projects in the same place.
At any rate, that's where you can change it back to normal.

[bongo_x]

When you start the session from the template, do you save it with a name before you start recording? Or do you record and then save it and name it? I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking the first scenario would put them in the proper place for the session and the second would put the audio where the template pointed.

bb

[EMRR]

Thanks. In this case I had .txt track sheets with song names already made ahead of time, and created new projects with the songs names as the songs were started. I've gone with default naming before with no problems. So far I hadn't found a menu or instructions to change the take folder. The manual only mentions the audio folder within the project folder as default. So, if this is a template issue, it's a new one here at least.

[EMRR]

....and part way through day two DP suddenly started putting audio files in the correct folders. No changes or prompting from me. ?????

[kats_corner]

Hey there, EMRR...

I've seen this behaviour, but in my case I've also dug into a little more detail to give me a bigger picture of what I think is going on.

First: yes, I think the templates are storing their "parent" location as the default take folder.

Second, more for bongo_x: I believe that when a new DP project is opened, you *have* to write it to it's proper destination before recording; it's part of the create-a-new-project dialog - so I don't understand the question about recording before saving. I've seen Audacity do that, and a number of stereo mastering suite apps, but so far as I can tell DP isn't ready to record until after the project is properly created in it's own directory.

On to a little more info: when I create templates, I like to keep the "stub" projects so that I can quickly and easily tweek little things from time to time and then re-save them under the same template name. This lets me make adjustments to my templates without having to create a project from the existing template first. That said, with DP 6.0.2 I've started seeing new projects, created/saved on my external drive, writing all audio to the "Audio Files" folder within the stub project (on my internal drive) from which the template had been originally saved.

I've also noted that, when this happens, if I catch it before I actually record anything so that I can first record-enable any 1 track and set it's takefile to the proper directory, any subsequently record-enabled tracks' takefiles go where I want them.

I have a workaround for *my* situation, don't know if it may help you as well: I've moved all my template "stubs" to a virtual disk (a .dmg file), which I've further obfuscated by storing that .dmg on a USB thumb drive. This way, the "original" take file location simply does not exist if that virtual drive is not mounted. When this is the case, projects created from any template default their take file locations to the Audio Files directory inside their own folders, where they belong.

My thought through all of this is: did you create or update a template from the first project from which to create the subsequent projects? For example, if you were to have opened a blank project (maybe with no tracks, or tracks but no plugs); then added a few things during the first session; said, "gee, I want to have all this set up in the rest of the sessions 'cause I know I'm gonna use it this way on the rest of the tracks..."; and then made a new template from which to create the rest of the recording session project folders -- *that* is the point where your template (and therefore all subsequent projects created from it) got the idea that all take files belong in the first project's Audio Files folder.

If this is the case, you'll have to make a quick adjustment to the takefiles location in each new project before recording, since in this scenario the parent project of the template would obviously still exist.

[1nput0utput]

You need to use the "Save as Template" feature in the File menu. If you create a new "stub" project and then simply copy the project file to a new location, the new copy of the file is probably going to retain the "stub" project's take file locations. The proper template feature of DP makes sure that this doesn't happen.

[FMiguelez]

You need to use the "Save as Template" feature in the File menu. If you create a new "stub" project and then simply copy the project file to a new location, the new copy of the file is probably going to retain the "stub" project's take file locations. The proper template feature of DP makes sure that this doesn't happen.

EXACTLY!

Well written, I/O

[kats_corner]

You need to use the "Save as Template" feature in the File menu. If you create a new "stub" project and then simply copy the project file to a new location, the new copy of the file is probably going to retain the "stub" project's take file locations. The proper template feature of DP makes sure that this doesn't happen.

I'm afraid you're not following me. I *don't* copy project folders to new locations as a poorman's home-made template methodology. That would be a terribly time-consuming process when creating new projects, and pretty downright silly, actually.

I *DO* save them as DP templates, and create projects from there (DP's File New> menu). BUT, The "...proper template feature of DP..." does NOT currently keep this from happening - it used to, as I've come to expect from DP4 and 5, and I don't recall running into this problem even in 6.0 or 6.0.1 -- but by 6.0.2 things have definitely changed.

Even after saving as a template, when a project is created from the template list in the DP File menu, IF the original parent project folder from which the template was originally saved still exists, new audio in the projects created from the template still write to the parent's project folder. It's as if saving it as a template is no longer divorcing it from the original project's location, the way it always used to do.

Bear in mind, *I'm* not the one having fits with this, I signed on to offer my workaround(1) to EMRR, who was the one originally posting the issue. Besides, my method of storing my "stubs" is NOT the workaround, it's simply the mechanism by which I discovered this new unexpected behaviour of DP templates, and the tool through which I discovered how to make my workaround actally work.

(1) My own workaround: I keep my generic template parent folders on a drive which is not usually mounted, and templates created from the DP menu behave just fine. Or, if I need to make "updated" templates on the fly during a gig, in projects created from the updated templates I just rec-enable 1 track, set it's take folder as desired, and then rec-enable the rest. Seems wierd that this should work for more than just that 1 track, but it seems to be just the right shock-therapy to get the new project to realise where it's audio files belong.

My guess is, this was done in a misguided attempt to allow all take files to be easily stored in a single, central place; so they don't get spread around several project folders when all those projects are part of a larger master project anyway. I personally think this is in the same thought process as, for example, iMovie now storing ALL your clips together in a central location (like iTunes) so that ANY movie project can access ANY clip. Without going into detail of why I think this is REALLY a bad idea, I *really* hope DP doesn't go the way of iMovie and make this sort of behaviour an inescapably forced fact of life. I like my audio (and video for that matter) files for a single project folder stored WITH that folder - nowhere else.

I would suggest that if this is actually desirable in some situations (maybe in a studio utilising a SAN or centrally-distributed cluster system), how about a little checkbox on the save-as-a-template dialog to "direct takefiles of template-created projects to the template-parent project folder" or something to that effect. Uncheck the box, and takefiles would go back to the original time-tested default - into the NEWLY CREATED project folder.

[EMRR]

yes, I think the templates are storing their "parent" location as the default take folder.

did you create or update a template from the first project from which to create the subsequent projects? For example, if you were to have opened a blank project (maybe with no tracks, or tracks but no plugs); then added a few things during the first session; said, "gee, I want to have all this set up in the rest of the sessions 'cause I know I'm gonna use it this way on the rest of the tracks..."; and then made a new template from which to create the rest of the recording session project folders -- *that* is the point where your template (and therefore all subsequent projects created from it) got the idea that all take files belong in the first project's Audio Files folder.

If this is the case, you'll have to make a quick adjustment to the takefiles location in each new project before recording, since in this scenario the parent project of the template would obviously still exist.

I built a project the day before the session, with all tracks named and relevant plugs installed. Used "file/save as template" as I've always done. Record song 1, everything fine. If there are any major tweaks to the template requirements at any time, I overwrite the template using same method. Close song 1, create new project for song 2 via "file/new/(relevant template)". Song 2 audio gets stored in the song 1 project audio file folder, same for songs 3 on. This is new behavior here; never happened before. I've never had to redirect the write location of a project. I find it curious that any merging of files puts them in the correct folder, even though the parent files are still in the wrong place. Even more curious that sometime on day 2 DP started putting files in the correct place for both new recording on sessions from the day before, and putting all files in new projects in the correct place.

I currently have 14 songs done over two 15 hour days, probably 50-60 total takes (65 GB), that I need to reshuffle through "save as/duplicate audio and copy shared samples to project".

[kats_corner]

Yep, that's the sequence of events I was trying to describe. When you make those tweeks and overwrite the template, it just has the effect of making all the projects created from that new template point their takefiles to the last project from which the template overwrite was done, right? And yes, this appears to be new behaviour as of 6.0.2 (from my experience anyway).

I'm not sure of all the possible combinations of events which cause it to behave properly again, but yes I've also seen it spontaneously go back to working, seemingly on its own. *Most* of the time I can trace this back to the template's parent not being accessible to the system at the time the new project is instantiated.

I've been able to cause the current project to wake up and re-orient itself by manually pointing a takefile at the new project's Audio Files directory; but that doesn't seem to have a reliable transitory effect on any new projects created from the "tainted" template.

Re: the saving of any processing results etc where they belong, I'm guessing you have your prefs set to keep all processed audio with the project (just like I do). This is working just fine, it's only the takefile destination which is behaving differently than before, so we only run into it while actually recording.

[EMRR]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to think of this as a bug, or incompletely rewritten code, at best. It shouldn't behave this way. Now to get used to the workarounds....