Moving to DP from Logic... should I do it? (and why?)

[Pappy725]

Last question... is there anywhere I can download a DP6 manual from on the web? MOTU site seems to need you to have registered a copy of DP6. But I always read manuals before I buy software (just so there are no nasty surprises in the way things are done!) so it would be great if someone can point me to a link...
Cheers
Mike

You might have better luck finding a DP user near you to get a look at the manual, the 'PDF Manual' is a sore subject around here 'cause the pirates are usually the ones looking for it.
We do hope you come on over to DP, it is a very powerful and usable DAW.

Pappy


PS. LOVE the bunny suit, James

[MonoPoly307]

Thanks Pappy,

I might have a read of it at my music store instead in that case.

Can anyone help with my question about having more than one Consolidated Window open at a time?

Thanks heaps.
Mike

[timriley]

The consolidated window, in combination with 'window sets', basically allows any window configuration you could ever want.. As far as i'm aware, you can't have more than one consolidated window open at a time.. You can, however, open some single windows on top of the consolidated window.. Also, if consolidated windows don't fit into your workflow, you don't have to use them... Many DP users don't use consolidated windows.... Just as many do use consolidated windows..... It's something that you can only really decide upon for yourself, once you have a copy of DP to play with... I personally don't think you'll be disappointed by what DP has to offer in terms of windows layouts and configurations.

Maybe take a look at this thread to learn more...

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... nsolidated

[James Steele]

Well first question: You cannot have two Consolidated Windows open at once. But you can have a Consolidated Window plus unlimited other windows open at the same time, but those are individual view windows. So only one Consolidated Window and then all the usual separate windows. But you can't have TWO Consolidated Windows.

Second question, that's sort of a bone of contention here. You see, DP is not copy protected other than by entering a code after you install it, and this sort of copy protection is often circumvented as it's easy for pirate types to pass codes around. So you can't download a PDF file of the DP manual... it doesn't exist. I know there's a Logic manual PDF (I got one when I got Express), but you have to buy the app and install it from disk. I'm not even sure-- can you actually download a full Logic manual from Apple unless you register at Apple's site? I suspect even the Logic PDF is not available for download by the general public, is it? Many of us here, including me, prefer printed manuals anyway and we theorize that the lack of a freely available DP PDF manual is sort of a copy-protection measure, but MOTU has never confirmed or denied this. If it is to make things more difficult on people using pirated copies, I'm all for it.

[Shooshie]

Two consolidated windows are not possible in DP. Really, there is no need for two. On the other hand, you can pop any window out of the consolidated windows and put it on another screen. Getting around in DP is so easy that there are many ways of jumping from place to place, or zooming quickly so that you can see both ends of a soundbite you're editing, or whatever you need. Two consolidated windows would be, essentially, a waste of space.

Also, there are no manuals to DP available online. There is no digital version of the manual available anywhere, at least not legally. If someone has scanned the whole darned thing, I don't know about it. It's over 1000 pages! That's a subject that comes up often in the forum, so you're liable to get some jokes pertaining to your asking the question.

You seem to like the way Logic works. Why not just use it?

[EDIT: wups, didn't see page two, or I'd have noticed that James already answered the questions.]

Shooshie

[bdr]

Thanks Pappy,

I might have a read of it at my music store instead in that case.

Thanks heaps.
Mike

I suggest going to soundonsound.com and look up Robin Bigwood's monthly column on working with DP, you'll find lots of info on workflow and features there.

[Michael Canavan]

2. Logic - amazingly - doesn't let you choose which MIDI port you are inputting through, so if you want to record two MIDI instruments being played at the same time, you have to separate by channel rather than just saying "this instrument is coming in through MIDI Port A and should control this channel, and this other instrument is coming in via Port D and should control this other channel"...
Does DP just let you choose the in port and the out port for any MIDI track? Simply?

You can get Logic to separate by port, it's by default set up to sum incoming MIDI by channel, but you can easily change that. It is far different than the way Cubase and DP do it, and while I can see the advantage for advanced users in certain circumstances, I have no idea why the default is to sum all incoming MIDI? I think they figure most people are using little outboard gear and a controller keyboard.

I'lll tell you that when I switched to Logic years ago, Cubase was looking much easier to migrate to. What sold me at the time was the click/drag timeline cycle bar in logic, and it was more stable than Cubase 5.1 on OS 9.

[Michael Canavan]

In other words, could I have one arrange window on my main monitor and another on my second monitor, which might show a different part of the song or might show the tracks at a different zoom level?

Logic on the other hand lets you have two arrange windows, one in each screen, which means you can have different parts of the song open or you could have a really large horizontal zoom on one screen for detailed editing and a very shrunken version on the other so you could always easily see which tracks or events you were working on.

If DP does have this, I might just make the move!
Cheers
Mike

I think the others missed a BIG thing here. This is hard to explain, so I'll start by using Logic as an example: In Logic there is one Arrange Window, sure you can have others open, but they're all the same really. There are basically two mixing environments though, the Mixer, and the Environment. They serve different functions, but in many ways, the Mixer is just an easier to navigate representation of the Environment. If you're at all comfortable with Logic you know what I mean. Because they do slightly different things, I NEVER have two Mixers open in Logic, at the most it would be one Mixer and the Environment.

Now in DP there is one Mixer, and two ways to look at the data you see in Logics Arrange Page, the Track Overview, and the Sequencer Window. The Track Overview gives a larger picture of the data, is more geared towards editing the timeline (cut copy paste type stuff), while the Sequence Editor is more like an intimate view of the actual data in the song. You can change MIDI notes around right in it and do pretty surgical audio editing, it also allows you to customize what you see in terms of the actual tracks, so if you're working on the drum tracks which are on four tracks, you can show only the four drum tracks at full screen zoom etc.
This is very different than Logic or Cubase, but it works just as well. The Song Window from what I can tell is entirely unique to DP and is very useful as well for fleshing out songs.

Anyway I've used all three, and for different reasons am migrating back to DP, now that it supports more than SDII files.

[fai31188]

Just to mention another feature of DP that I really missed in Logic: Multiple mixes in the same project. Can't do it in Logic!!! At least not in the same project. Multirecording MIDI in DP is a breeze. Try that in Logic sometime!!

My Dp6 copy arrives today. Can't wait!!

aL

[kassonica]

Just to mention another feature of DP that I really missed in Logic: Multiple mixes in the same project. Can't do it in Logic!!! At least not in the same project. Multirecording MIDI in DP is a breeze. Try that in Logic sometime!!

My Dp6 copy arrives today. Can't wait!!

aL

Lets us know how you go with eh

[fai31188]

Lets us know how you go with eh

Well, besides having to get used to the 6.02 GUI, it feels like coming home again. I love DP's workflow (I am sure that's due in large part to familiarity), but, I also love the simplicity of doing MIDI work in it. Workflow is seemless and doing basic audio and MIDI recording/mixing/mastering/bouncing is just easy. Working with audio is a no brainer in DP. For e.g., I had to arrange and cut a single track rehearsal recording that was about 75 minutes into coherent songs that lasted about 30 minutes. Doing this in DP took me no time flat. It seems to me that Logic, in an attempt to simplify things, forces you to work within certain limitations. I find the arrange window limiting and frustrating to work in at times. Logic's workflow simply didn't suit my taste, and to be honest, I was mostly shocked at the level of MIDI ineptitude when it came to handling external MIDI devices, on which I rely for 90% of all of my recordings. As an example, having MIDI velocity show up in the editor was an adventure. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. Can't tell you why really! No real way to have multiple mixes??? The list goes on!!

Logic does certain things very well. All the VI's are good if you need them, the effects are very good also, but, I would give those up in a second to be able to use an application that allowed me to make music without much fiddling around with settings, preferences and things that didn't exist.

To summarize, I am happy to be back in DP. It was a necessary detour, -- a very informative and helpful one. It convinced me to go back to DP to make music again, and leave all the fiddling to those who are interested in that sort of thing.

aL

[MonoPoly307]

Hi Guys

This "multiple mixes" thing sounds pretty impressive... is that basically completely different versions of a project, but within the same project?

So you could put together different versions of a song and try out different parts or effects or even leaving out or adding in sections? But still within the one project, so you can switch easily between them and compare?

This does sound cool... can someone explain a bit more about it?

Thanks heaps guys,
Mike

[James Steele]

Hi Guys

This "multiple mixes" thing sounds pretty impressive... is that basically completely different versions of a project, but within the same project?

Depending on what you mean (like having different sections in a song or other arrangements) that might be best handled by having multiple "chunks." A DP project can contain multiple chunks/sequences and you can store different versions within the same project file.

So you could put together different versions of a song and try out different parts or effects or even leaving out or adding in sections? But still within the one project, so you can switch easily between them and compare?

This does sound cool... can someone explain a bit more about it?

Well, as the way you describe it that would be more about "chunks." Multiple MIXES is quite literally that. There's a little drop down menu in the lower left corner of the Mixing Board and you can save a mix (including plug ins, automation, levels, pans, sends, etc.) and name it. You can also duplicate a mix as a starting point and then make changes frome there. So basically all that's changing is levels, automation, plugs and the like... in essence different versions of a "MIX."

Thanks heaps guys,
Mike[/quote]