Drums on a bit of a budget

[lodstudios]

Well...

Just bought a house and am building a studio in the new garage, complete with a live drum/amp room.

In the past I went to another studio to do drums for my clients and dumped the files back into DP in my studio, now I am having to step up and get more mics and pre's.

I currently have the 828MKII and Millennia STT1 for pre's...I never really recorded more than one thing at a time so it has worked. I have a Neumann TLM103 and a Sterling Audio ST31 SDC, they both are great in my book.

What I was thinking about doing was buying an 896HD used and using those pre's for drums and the STT1 for snare...Then, what mics to get? I really need to keep the budget to $1,200...here is what I want, any suggestions? I am in no way married to this idea, I know I could easily get an 8 channel pre via ADAT and get great results as well.

Kick, Snare, Snare Bottom, 2 Toms & OH mics...Total of 7-8 channels...Enough pre's to track the all these, as well as another 2-4 channels of simple compression. I will be recording loud guitars now too so I am assuming I will need a few '57s.

I am open to all suggestions, I do this full time but have never really HAD to record drums, now it is just more time and cost effective to do so.

Thanks!

[Phil O]

Hmm. $1200? Could easily spend that on one mic. I'll just throw out some ideas.

I've been thinking about adding a multichannel pre myself, but that's down the line. (I've been saving up my nickles and dimes for a pair of Earthworks mics.) Check out the Octopre and Octopre LE from Focusrite. I'm told they're great bang for the buck. If you're thinking of getting some SM57s also check out the Audix i5. I haven't used one yet, but the folks I've talked to who have them seem to like them better than the 57s for toms. A great mic for bass drum is the Electrovoice RE20, but that will take a good chunk of your budget. There are also some drum mic kits that might serve you well.

Brad Lyons will probably visit this post. He can't solicit sales here, but I CAN give him a recommendation. Give him a call at Sweetwater and discuss your needs with him. He's been my go to guy for gear for several years now and has always treated me right.

Phil

[BradLyons]

Recording drums can get real expensive, real quick---even if doing it on a budget. For that $1,200 budget, does that also include purchasing drums and cymbals---or do you have that already? The advantage of going to another studio is using their mics and pres, so trying to purchase both for $1,200 will severely limit what you can do. However, it can be done---and you can always add as you go. Being that you have the 828mkII already, there's no reason to buy an 896HD used. Instead, I think you'll gain a lot more mileage out of adding something like a Presonus DigimaxD8 connected via ADAT Optical to your 828mkII. Will double your inputs to (16), but also give you (8) decent quality micpres. I'd consider the Audix DP5A kit for miking your Kick, Snare, and (3) Toms----and consider a pair of Rode NT5's for your overheads. This will be a little over your budget, but IMHO you'll be A LOT better off long-term. Why? Well, this is quality gear that won't go to waste. For example, say someday you want to also get some Earthworks mics for your overheads.....simply move the NT5's over to HI HAT and RIDE. You'll not need to purchase boom-stands for the Snare and Tom mics as the mounts come included. You'll still need a stand for the kick mic as well as a couple stands for the overheads.

Thanks, Phil!

[lodstudios]

Hey Brad!

Thanks for weighing in! I will not be purchasing drums at this time, my clients hire out session drummers so I won't have to worry about it at this point.

I love my 828, I am also a fan of the presonus piece you suggested...that may just be the way to go!

[BradLyons]

So they bring their own drums then, correct? If you can get your budget to about $1,500---I think you'd be happy with what you get.

[sinkd]

I would try to find a used Presonus Digimax and get the Bob Heil HDK-5 package. You might could squeak that in for your budget and the Heil mics are killer on drums!

This ebay listing comes with two SM57s and would leave you room to get the Heil package:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PreSonus-DigiMAX-FS ... 1|294%3A50

Damon Sink
http://thestudiofiles.com

[David Polich]

I'd get fxPansion's BFD2 or Sonic Realitys Ocean Way drums and be done with it. Seriously.

If you want a live drummer, get a Roland or Yamaha electronic kit and have them play that, triggering the drum VI's.

BFD changed the playing field as much as the sampler, the ADAT, and hard disk recording. Frankly, I'd have
to hire Bob Clearmountain and record at Ocean Way or AIR studios to get the same results - and I wouldn't have
the same choice of hundreds of kit pieces.

If your clients hire session drummers, then the drummers are getting paid, so they won't care if it is
pads triggering drum VI's. Or I'll put it this way - they have no say so if they're getting paid.

Make it easy on yourself and come on in to the 21st century.

If you're not into setting it up yourself, Waxman has it all rigged up over at his place, you can send him
the DP files and he's got a killer drummer who will do the tracks for you.

[timizere]

way to obliterate the creative process of recording. ^^ depends what you're after i shpose.

[BradLyons]

I'd get fxPansion's BFD2 or Sonic Realitys Ocean Way drums and be done with it. Seriously.

If you want a live drummer, get a Roland or Yamaha electronic kit and have them play that, triggering the drum VI's.

BFD changed the playing field as much as the sampler, the ADAT, and hard disk recording. Frankly, I'd have
to hire Bob Clearmountain and record at Ocean Way or AIR studios to get the same results - and I wouldn't have
the same choice of hundreds of kit pieces.

If your clients hire session drummers, then the drummers are getting paid, so they won't care if it is
pads triggering drum VI's. Or I'll put it this way - they have no say so if they're getting paid.

Make it easy on yourself and come on in to the 21st century.

If you're not into setting it up yourself, Waxman has it all rigged up over at his place, you can send him
the DP files and he's got a killer drummer who will do the tracks for you.

Drummers prefer acoustic kits for a reason. To get an electronic kit in his budget, most drummers would NOT like it--why? Because it will force them to change how they play, and if these are clients---they'll find another studio. I have nothing against electronic drums, I have a TD20 kit that I use live at my church---but that's what, $6,000? We went that direction because it was the closest to playing like a real kit---and because of our environment, it was the best way to go.

[lodstudios]

I agree, I program most all my drums and it just doesn't compare...(IMHO)

The last project I finished is getting some good attention from A&R and publishing folks, they loved all the songs but could tell the drums were samples on the ones they deemed "the singles" What did we do? We went to my buddy's studio and tracked live drums there.
I haven't had people play the parts with a MIDI Kit, I am sure they sound better than programming by hand, or on a keyboard in my case, but I just would rather have the real thing.

[buzzsmith]

PreSonus Digimax:

I don't do a lot of live drum recording (maybe 6+ times a year or so) but for the $$, the PreSonus seems to work very well feeding a MOTU 24I/O.

I had an Octopre, but it's outputs were too hot for the 24i in my scenario, so I sold it on eBay. (As I remember, controlling the input gain was the real issue.)

I have a "decent" mic locker and, fortunately, most of the drummers who bring in their drums bring in really nice sounding easy to record drum kits...big factor!

Buzzy

[BradLyons]

You know......my wife and I went to meet our friend, Tom, to buy a hat. Unfortunately, we forgot where we were heading, had to turn around, hit some water, got splashed and nearly had a crash. Fortunately we were okay, even though we were nearly trapped on the set. But after eating, we had our fill. In the end, I thought she was going to kick me after such a ride. And Tom showed up, she was going to strike him for everything...but I beater to it.

[mhschmieder]

At least you didn't wind up in China.

[BradLyons]

Ahhhhhhhh I've never thought of that one!!

[David Polich]

I agree, I program most all my drums and it just doesn't compare...(IMHO)

The last project I finished is getting some good attention from A&R and publishing folks, they loved all the songs but could tell the drums were samples on the ones they deemed "the singles" What did we do? We went to my buddy's studio and tracked live drums there.
I haven't had people play the parts with a MIDI Kit, I am sure they sound better than programming by hand, or on a keyboard in my case, but I just would rather have the real thing.

If someone says they can tell which drums are sampled, then there are two reasons for that:

crappy samples
poor programming

I've done (and also heard) drum tracks using BFD and either my own fingers or a drummer on an electronic kit, and
I can tell you hands down, nobody could tell the difference. Not even drummers.

I can also guarantee you've already been listening to a lot of commercial rock, pop and country music that
you believe has a "real" drummer but in fact actually features triggered sampled drums. Particularly metal
- a lot of it is programmed.

You need to either play drums to understand how to program them "realistically" or you need a real drummer playing
an electronic kit or drum trigger setup like a TrapKat.

As far as the drum samples themselves go - with BFD or Ocean Way or Mixosaurus, you get sounds you'd be lucky to
get yourself at a "real" recording studio. That's because - they actually were recorded at a real recording studio, by
top notch engineers who understand drums better than you do.

Any drummer who can't adapt to an electronic kit is - well, I just wouldn't hire that person. Electronic pads are
just a different approach. It's like saying you can't go from acoustic guitar to electric. Real "pros" can play on any setup, acoustic or electric, regardless of what they prefer.