Should I make a "Logic"-al choice?

[orcasound]

Just had to buy a "new-er" mac - 8core/2.8 - redid the whole studio kind of thing.... and well...I've reading all over the web - and thought I could best get an honest answer from my fellow DP users. - I've been using "DP - since, well... it was 'P' - I've been through most all the issues with the boys from Mass...but so far just a long wish list of things i'd like to see ... nothing really thats ticked me off enough to cheat... I did have a brief affair with Opcode's Vision - but that was a long time ago - anyway - I must admit that lately I have been thinking about alot of things that Id like to see in DP and I had high hopes of switching to DP6 (currently happily using DP5.13) - but from the looks of this site and many others across the web - it appears as if DP maybe has lost their edge - seems like this new version is more than just a bit buggy. I am a fulltime studio owner/performer and I cant afford to be messing with DAW-issues when i've got to be putting food on the table for the 3 kids. - I, like Luke Skywalker, I will never switch to the dark side with Darth-Digi and his evil ProTools - nor am I am cubase-nuendo kind of guy... but I have to say that Logic Studio-8 is looking more and more interesting to me. Its a $499 purchase vs. my $195.00 upgrade to DP6... and obviously in the sake of my bank account and my client's budgets - I cant witch cold turkey - but is anyone else feeling this??
Its not the massive amounts of VI's and Plugs that come with it - I've got lots of those,, but stuff like.... VI and plug-in instances - and the CPU usage - and the fact that Apple, well... they usually have a hard time failing at a lot of things - and cant help but think that SnowLeopard and its multi-core maximization will more than likely benefit Logic the most. I keep hearing a lot of folks saying that Logic is the DAW of the future.... I believe ProTools will go down as Apple keeps Kicking up their machines - no one is gonna need to/want to pay that God-awful high dollar amount for their digi-only hardware - when the newest mac can give them more... and I am afraid that maybe MOTU - might loose step or trip and fall - and see Logic way ahead in the lead.. and well... just give up.
I can live with 5.13 - even though Logic and its GUI looks a little more snappy....but I know that some of what I want - will never be had in 5.13
I need someone to talk me out of it.... talk me into it.... tell me they have a stable DP6....
This is a huge deal for me as I have cult-ishly supported MOTU much like I have Apple. - and I've always felt proud to be among the engineers/composers/producers and artists that have long utilized MOTU... it justs seems MOTU is loosing' 'em as fast as it used to get 'em.

thanks
k

[FMiguelez]

.

OrcaSound... I really don't know what to tell you.

Your perception is sad, but I'm afraid there's some truth there... at least SOME.

I've ALWAYS supported MOTU's hardware and software. I LOVE DP to death. It's allowed me to put food on my table, grow my career, succeed, and more... it's just that every day I see more and more people complaing about DP 6, and more and more people getting pissed off about MOTU's dead-silence policy of not saying ANYTHING...

As much as I don't like Logic, it will always have an edge by the mere fact that it's owned by Apple. They can throw unlimited amounts of cash to its development, and make almost unfair competition. They could even give it away for free, and it wouldn't hurt them one bit, as long as they keep selling computers.

If you've already invested so much time and knowledge on DP, I'd probably stay longer, hoping MOTU will surprise us all with upcoming releases... I think they KNOW they must blow us away.

Also, have you visited Logic's forums? I have a few times, and I keep reading about problems and bugs too, so they are not immune to these things either. I read a Logic forum once where things were more heated (and looked worse) than here.

Do you REALLY need the "extra VI headroom" ? I'm not sure how real, or how much that really is. It would be pretty sad to go to Logic only to discover they have as many issues as we do... and it would be worse, because they have no excuse to have them.

I don't know. What I DO know, is that since my old DP is working overall great for me, I have no reason to change. I want DP to improve, and I want to keep supporting MOTU. Granted. I write this because I almost never have serious issues with DP... I'm not sure I'd be writing the same if I did have them, to the point of risking my career, as some people seem to be having.

I'd say stay... at least for a little while longer. DP 7 maybe?

[adeptusmajor]

i have a stable DP6



i think i see more gripes about logic in general, too. (edit: just not on this forum)

[kassonica]

i have a stable DP6



i think i see more gripes about logic in general, too. (edit: just not on this forum)

Mine is near stable About 98% I'd say.

[James Steele]

Umm... and this has what to do with the use of Digital Performer, etc? You know these "contemplation" posts belong in the MOTU Theoretical & Off Topic section. I'm moving it. Thanks.

[adeptusmajor]

yeah i wouldn't say it's 100%, but then what software is.

it's not giving me any major headaches, though.

i suspect you hear from the people who have problems a lot more than the people who don't.

i wouldn't let the negative posts discourage you much, as problem solving seems to be the primary purpose of this board.

btw, i am also using a 2.8G 8-core macpro.

[monkey man]

If you've already invested so much time and knowledge on DP, I'd probably stay longer, hoping MOTU will surprise us all with upcoming releases... I think they KNOW they must blow us away.... I'd say stay... at least for a little while longer. DP 7 maybe?

My sentiments exactly, 'Nando.

MOTU die-hard here. Switched from ATARIBase in '99, and placed all my eggs in MOTU's basket. Adding a 3rd MOTU audio and 2nd MIDI interface this year as the thought of remaining with hardware MIDI sound sources appeals more to me than jumping ship to the Darth Side. Heck, I've even spent the past several years upgrading said hardware when I could have sold it and spent only a fraction of the proceeds on iLogic. I'm not convinced of the on-going reliabilty of VIs yet, let alone their general lack of legacy compatibility, DAW-included plugs excepted.

I'd make the logical choice, and avoid iLogic. I anticipate being blown away by MOTU... again.

[nk_e]

Logic definitely has a different "zeitgeist" to it. If you are a long term DPer, the switch is not trivial.

That said, there are a lot more resources out there to help you learn Logic than there is for DP. Check out macprovideo.com for a great set of tutorials.

The VI "headroom" is definitely there. The audio editing definitely isn't (as compared to DP). Usable, but not as advanced IMHO.

The way you think about a song is much more "object oriented". It's a doodle to work very precisely and copy/paste/drag/drop sections of audio or MIDI and create arrangements. If your music tends to the pop/dance orientation especially, this is helpful. (Again IMHO.) I suppose some orchestral stuff would really benefit too. It also seems more "sympatico with working with Ableton's Live.

Speaking of which, download the demo of LIVE8. If you are looking for something to compliment your capabilities -- give you something new and different (after all DP and LOGIC essentially duplicate each other's functionality in a broad sense) -- check out LIVE. Pretty easy to grok and definitely a different set of possibilities.

Cheers.
GN

[fai31188]

As I said in another post, as a DP user since 2000, I bought logic pro last year mostly for the VI's and the plugins, only to be frustrated and frankly shocked at some of its shortcomings, especially in the MIDI department. The ridiculous environment is a joke, if you ask me. Needless to say, I bought DP6 yesterday. Logic will stay in my arsenal only to use some of the VI's and perhaps some of the other applications like Waveburner (which I haven't used yet but which look useful).

If logic was the only DAW out there I could certainly adjust. But, there's no reason why anyone should have to put up with the way Logic does things. It's basically a full blown Garage Band, and looks and acts like it. The VI's are useful (if you want to do everything in the box), but, I have a bunch of keyboards (hence the MIDI issues with Logic).

aL

[sdfalk]

The ridiculous environment is a joke,

and infinitely more flexible then anything offered by DP..
and infinitely more complicated

[Shooshie]

The ridiculous environment is a joke,

and infinitely more flexible then anything offered by DP..
and infinitely more complicated

"Infinitely" is a mighty big word.
I don't know, I think people tend to forget that Custom Consoles can be put to a lot of good use, and the Tracks Overview Window is simply better than anything Logic has to offer (IMO). Polar is nice, if you're into that sort of thing, and the MIDI Edit Window in which you can see ALL your MIDI tracks superimposed over each other is simply a great way to work with MIDI. My biggest beef with Logic is the way you have to work with MIDI. It's just unacceptable to me, whereas DP makes it so easy and simple, with powers that should be basic to any DAW, but which Logic somehow managed to bungle. I can use Logic, but I don't think I could ever achieve some of the subtlety in MIDI as simply, quickly, and easily as I can do it in DP.

Shoosh

[sdfalk]

I suppose it is a "mighty big word"
In this case pretty much justified.
I never said I preferred Logic's methodology,
i just object to phrases like The ridiculous environment is a joke,
I've used Max on a number of occasions that in some (not all respects)
Similarly laid out and found it astoundingly (another big word..hmmm, have I used
up my quota?) powerful.
I've worked with musicians who know Logics environment far better then I and
can create complex in depth Custom consoles and MIDI patch bays that I've never
been able to do in DP.
BUT..it's not often that I need that level of complexity (and when I do I use Max)
AND it gives me a HUGE headache anyway.
DP is still my preferred weapon of choice for about 90% of what I enjoy doing
creatively.
From a UI/overall workflow, it's still tops for me.

[James Steele]

I think it really just boils down to what features you actually need. I would imagine there are people who have uses for the deep MIDI features and flexibility of which Logic's environment is capable. Clearly, however, I'm not one of them and so that part of it leaves me cold. But then again, you can simply ignore it. I know it's lurking underneath the surface of Apple's facelift. The German techno-geek sequencer roots are there, much like there's the DOS-era "blue screen of death" and filename system hiding beneath my Windows XP facade on my office machine.

I think you can actually open the environment in Logic, right and there will be a jumble of elements on the screen that reflect what you've created in the more user-familiar areas of the DAW, correct? I like the more polished looking GUI and the way dragging and dropping things like drum patters from Addictive Drums (or other drum VI) works. MIDI regions are cool and I've griped to MOTU about DP's lack of that. (Again, for the umpteenth time, Studio Vision Pro had "subsequences" back in the stone sequencer age.)

I think if MOTU could just make DP fast and as efficient as the other platforms, and improve the AU compatibility, the vast majority of the griping would go away. DP and Performer have never been models of processor efficiency. Back when I had my Mac SE, Vision kicked the crap out of it as far as how responsive my Mac was... it was way more efficient.

[sdfalk]

I think it really just boils down to what features you actually need

Never a debate there

[timriley]

I think if MOTU could just make DP fast and as efficient as the other platforms, and improve the AU compatibility, the vast majority of the griping would go away.

Agreed... Or at least as efficient as DP5.13 was, would do for now.. This has been my only real gripe about DP6 so far.