Problem: Audio breaks when two Ultralites are daisy chained

[nikbee]

EDIT: just want to say.. same thing happens if i have just one MOTU hooked up.. but im using two, so....

I have an original Ultralite daisy chained to a newer MK3 Ultralite. Frequently the audio drops out (emitting really high pitched sound) and the sample rate on the older daisy chained Ultralite blinks for about 4-5 seconds (sometimes way more).. This has rendered my ability to work/listen useless..

I know MOTU has issues with some firewire chipsets. I have a TI.

Ive tried several things.. 3rd party 1394 drivers (AVT1394, worked better, was less frequent, but still happened). Disabling all other stuff on same IRQ. Older MOTU drivers (which work much better, but dont recognize the MK3). Ive tried installing Service Pack 1 firewire drivers (no difference).

Ive also tried 2 different systems (one was XP, one was vista), both with TI chipsets, got the same exact results..

The systems are both raw, just internet and audio software.

I got the MK3 a few days ago.. Interestingly, everything was working really well, then all of a sudden the stutters started happening. A complete mystery.. I think I might have changed the sample buffer from 192 to 96.. Is it possible this corrupted something somehow? Changing back had no effect though, I think since then the stutters started happening, though im not 100% about this.

[Mark S]

If yu haven't, you might start here:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 14&t=24657

I'm moving toward adat optical connections for my units to get over the daisy chain limitations.

[nikbee]

yes, tried everything inside that thread. im firewire....

[TheRealRoach]

Hey dude,

Just out of curiosity did you try the SidSpeed setting adjustment in the registry, alongside the SP1 firewire driver change?

[nikbee]

yes

tried the sidspeed adjustment.. didnt work..

should i even try this on vista?

[nikbee]

••••ing hell is this frustrating..

i want to say something important that i havent read anywhere through my searches of my attempts to fix this..

what are everyones experiences with asio4all drivers?

i use audiomulch and asio4all drivers for the 2 MOTU ultralites and they are SUPER stable.. very very rarely they drop out.. they need a second to sync the two ultralites, but then they stay stable for the remainder of the time..

but when i use winamp to play a file it all goes to hell...

doesnt this somehow prove its the MOTU drivers that just totally suck?

[TheRealRoach]

I've never actually tried the asio4all drivers. I'll try them on my vista laptop next.

Unfortunately the firewire issues are in vista as well. Firewire is an Apple invention, and thus, competition. Conspiracy much?

I'm not sure what else to suggest other than trying again. The most consistent results have been from:

- Fresh OS install.
- Windows XP SP3, fully updated.
- Windows' OHCI 1394 Host Bus Controller roll-back to SP1 era drivers.
- TI chipset FW card (not a USB & FW combo card)
- Disabling onboard sound and firewire ports.
- Motu drivers 3.6.7.0, thru 3.6.7.4
- one wildcard has been the sidspeed adjustments. Some have needed them, some not.
- another wildcard has been firewire cable quality, i.e. something expensive like Belkin.

[nikbee]

yes my experiences with older drivers are much better. but they dont recognize the mk3

whats the oldest driver version that works with an ultralite mk3?

[Mark S]

FYI: the asio4all driver is a wrapper that converts asio to WDM but make your devices think it's asio. If your system doesn't like WDM you probably won't have good luck.

The usb drivers are shorthand for usb/firewire. They are the same download. But if you've exhausted that path then you've done it.

I think you've got driver/hardware compatibility problems. It may even be your unit. Unfortunately you have to have the new drivers for your MkIII.

before the clean install or the rollback, you might look at the thread for 3rd party drivers and give that a try. It's my next step here. Set a restore point first

And an edit note: I feel your frustration. I bought an 8pre last summer because I wanted another 8 channels, and of course MOTU says everything daisy chains nicely. I spent months! trying to get it to work until I did the rollback. Motu would answer my Tech note (2months then I called customer service). Motu wouldn't give me the 3.6.7.4 driver( new ones are better, and MOTU units don't have latency!) They don't acknowledge the syncing problems, and everyone with more experience than me says forget daisy chaining and do an optical connection, and loose 4 channels in the process. If I had known all this I would have spent my money in very different ways. Instead, now I'm a regular here trying to get things working to the point I feel I can get on the road with some sense of security that things will work.

My story is not unique, unfortunately. Best of luck.

[nikbee]

the avt1394 drivers work really well with one ultralite, but when i turn on the second one the computer completely freezes..

any ideas?

[nikbee]

heres the response i got from MOTU techlinks:

"With the release of Service Pack 2, the FireWire implementation of Windows XP has changed, causing numerous issues with FireWire devices. One issue of which we are aware is the inability under many systems for multiple MOTU FireWire interfaces to remain in sync. We are currently working with Microsoft towards a resolution to this problem, and a future update to the drivers may solve the issue.

Microsoft has released a patch that addresses the issue. It can be found at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222. However, we have noticed that this patch does not solve the problem on every system."

[TheRealRoach]

Such bullsh••. The KB885222 patch is going to be five years old by the end of the year. I can't believe they even tried to feed you that as an answer. Well at least after four and a half years they're acknowledging that SP2 broke their windows compatibility.

With regards to the AVT drivers and the freeze when powering on the second in the chain. Try this:
- Power the first one on, let the system detect it and make sure the Motu Control Panel is detecting it properly as well. Turn off your computer, keep the first one on and turn the second one on as well. Boot up the system. It should detect it without the crash.

From what I know the oldest driver that supports the mk3 is 3.6.8.1394. So there are only actually two versions that have been born.

[nikbee]

problem solved. nothing new though, its a problem with the new drivers.

i got rid of my MK3 ultralite and replaced it with a MK1.. so two MK1s are daisy chained and they work perfectly with 3.6.7.3 drivers..

hopefully theyll fix this with new driver version..

[Mark S]

problem solved. nothing new though, its a problem with the new drivers.

i got rid of my MK3 ultralite and replaced it with a MK1.. so two MK1s are daisy chained and they work perfectly with 3.6.7.3 drivers..

hopefully they'll fix this with new driver version..

don't' count on it. I have to turn on both units before I power up my DAW or I have to power down my DAW before I shut them off. This was similar under the windows driver. But now that you've gone back 5 years' in terms of the interface y9u might work out okay.

It's a Microsoft problem (okay a MOTU problem too since they won't support us when they say it WILL work, and our problem as a result)

Glad to hear you've got something that works!

[mcoyles]

If all these issues were an MS problem, then why is it when I take 2x 8PREs daisychained with firewire, and run them on any of my Intel-based iMacs, I get exactly the same problems...??