DP 6, Logic 8 and VIs

[schop]

I have not upgraded to DP 6 yet. I'm curious if anyone with both Logic 8 and DP 6 can tell me this: Does DP 6's improvements in dealing with VIs allow it host more VIs at a time than Logic 8? Any comparison info would be appreciated.

Thanks

[nk_e]

Logic is more efficient than DP when it comes to VIs I think especially when dealing with a single song or sequence. I'm able to run more instances of plug-ins, and the load seems distributed fairly well over my CPUs.

DP's VRacks seem to give an edge in instances when you have more than one sequence but share instrumentation between them. This doesn't necessarily get you more VI instances in any one of the sequences and is a bit specialized of a need outside of the film scoring world but, really great as far as ease of use though. The concept is really very good. I don't know of an analogous capability in LOGIC.

As I had the whole pre-render option turned off to avoid problems, I don't know if this approach by MOTU helps to close the gap on performance / CPU strain. Sounds like with 6.0.2 some of the pre-render issues may have been addressed, so a comparison would be possible.

Doesn't really answer your question I guess....

Oh well. My $0.02.

[bootsncats]

I have a simmilar setup but a different experience. DP has been able to manage certain combinations better than logic and others not so well. I have had crashing problems in loginc and hence don't use it when time is on the line. I have, however, used it for a few of my projects when I get sick of the DP gui and just wanna have fun.

I like DP6's handling for the most part in 6.02 and some of my problems have apparently been resolved. At this point I'm with DP on better performance as of this update. Before that, I dunno.

steve - also not really answering the question.

[daveyboy]

I have to say that after using Logic 8 for a few months "professionally" that there's no doubt it's more cpu efficient when it comes to vi's, especially when tracking. I can have a higher buffer setting and when I press the low latency mode button it's great. Even with tracking audio. Also it rarely crashes. I've gotten to be pretty ambidextrous when switching between DP and Logic by keeping similar key commands, etc, but there are definitely things I'm missing from Logic when I'm in DP (and vice versa-pitch correction for example). I think DP could learn a lot from studying Logic. I'm sure they're doing so and I hope they catch up in some respects. At this point I'm not switching apps but using both, with a leaning towards Logic (pitch correction aside). I assume you're looking for info in regards to purchasing Logic? I'd say go for it. It's a great app.

[bootsncats]

I'm positive you really can't go wrong with either. Each has things that lend themselves to different tasks. I'd say go for it as well. I don't know many who have tried logic and not liked it. There isn't much not to like. I had some crashes and rough times but I am learning problem plugins are dangerous in any app. and cpu usage? I'm going to investigate, cause if logic is more efficient thats a huge plus. In the past I had a problem there, but hopefully that has been addressed in the latest update (8.02) you have inspired me to give it another go. The GUI beats the crap out of DP thats for sure.

[James Steele]

I'm positive you really can't go wrong with either. Each has things that lend themselves to different tasks. I'd say go for it as well. I don't know many who have tried logic and not liked it. There isn't much not to like. I had some crashes and rough times but I am learning problem plugins are dangerous in any app. and cpu usage? I'm going to investigate, cause if logic is more efficient thats a huge plus. In the past I had a problem there, but hopefully that has been addressed in the latest update (8.02) you have inspired me to give it another go. The GUI beats the crap out of DP thats for sure.

Wow... this really illustrates just how subjective things are. I agree that the GUI is is nice in Logic, but it's very obtuse to me and there are many things that just seem to be odd about it. Different strokes I guess.

[Armageddon]

I'd definitely hold off for a few more updates before diving into DP 6 ... while I think certain problems have been addressed and/or resolved with 6.02, I still don't feel that they've managed to lick the pre-render problem, which is probably what's been causing more issues with this release than anything else. Some people, like James S., are having great success with 6 in its current state, and some people are having hellacious problems with it. I definitely fall in the middle here; the pre-render mode in 6 allows me to run a lot more VIs (it's not actually dependent on your CPU, by the way, I think all the pre-render stuff is basically happening with your hard drive), but it's at the expense of overall stability. I'm actually very close to just reverting back to 5.1.3, even though I won't be able to bounce my VIs to disk (though I'll be able to freeze them, which is something I'm not having a lot of success with in 6 so far!), and to be honest with you, if I had a film scoring gig right now, I probably would, just because I'd know 5.1.3 wouldn't crash on me in the middle of a cue without warning and wipe out tons of unsaved work.

I'd almost veer towards Logic 8, except ... DP is a much better MIDI program, and blows Logic completely away in the arena of film scoring. I dig the bells and whistles Logic offers, something that DP is still lagging woefully behind in, and the fact that Logic more or less comes right from Apple means it's a hell of a lot more stable. In fact, I'd go so far as to say DP's main problem is they're trying too hard to compete with Logic, instead of focusing on the reasons why we gravitated towards it in the first place, which is to say, it was always a dependable, stable program with the best MIDI features available, and, until recently, had a great support team.

By the time DP 6 reaches the same level of stability that we had in 5.1.3, it's gonna be a great program. Unfortunately, for some of us, it ain't quite there, yet.

[nk_e]

I'm positive you really can't go wrong with either. Each has things that lend themselves to different tasks. I'd say go for it as well. I don't know many who have tried logic and not liked it. There isn't much not to like. I had some crashes and rough times but I am learning problem plugins are dangerous in any app. and cpu usage? I'm going to investigate, cause if logic is more efficient thats a huge plus. In the past I had a problem there, but hopefully that has been addressed in the latest update (8.02) you have inspired me to give it another go. The GUI beats the crap out of DP thats for sure.

Wow... this really illustrates just how subjective things are. I agree that the GUI is is nice in Logic, but it's very obtuse to me and there are many things that just seem to be odd about it. Different strokes I guess.

Though I like LOGIC, I'd have to agree with James here. For me personally, it's been a journey getting my head around LOGIC. DP is much more intuitive IMHO. However, I've spent and re-spent a good deal of time with the tutorials from MacProVideo and also its "Tips and Tricks" series and I'm finally kind of "getting it". DP and LOGIC are different beasts and appeal to different work flows and needs in my mind.

• LOGIC and the dreaded environment (not so bad after all) is really powerful and, if you like customizing what your app does, can't be beat. The program itself takes a much more "object" orientation with MIDI and sound, so patterned-based music is a lot easier to get done. I also think LOGIC's "zeitgeist" "gestalt" "insert your own foreign sounding word" is more compatible with the likes of LIVE and maybe to a smaller degree REASON if you work with REWIRE and that matters to you.
  
  DP is more intuitive (though MacAudioLab's tutorials are undeniably helpful), and its audio editing is superb. DP working with video is light years ahead of LOGIC. (I don't agree that its MIDI editing is superior however. I think they are both quite good.) Its VRACK is a really cool concept if you get head around it.

Just last week, a friend of mine asked me for a run down and recommendation for a music package to buy. The email exchange led to some realizations (for me anyway) about DP and MOTU and "the future". I ended up posting it to my blog. I meant to post it or some form of it here (after all I give MOTUNATION and James another recommendation ), but never got around to it. If you want to take a quick look, here's the link:

http://nk-e.com/2009/01/29/brevity-and-realizations/

Cheers all.

[bootsncats]

I think its ALL subjective. There are many different styles of recording out there and genres that lend themselves to one DAW or another. I did go home and try out logic again. It likes me. I like it. There are just a few simple things I "like" about one or the other. They don't have to do with anything limiting what I can get done, but perhaps taking a second off for one task or having buttons grouped in a way I can do something quickly. In the end though, they are awesome programs and I'd happily work on either any day of the week.

I do LOTS of film stuff so DP is my weapon of choice there. I run DP live in my theatre work I do and I can't use any other there. It has some features and a layout I phisicly can't go without untill I get a c24. I turn to logic for loop based music creation. Live loop based I go ableton. I use Reason in rewire mode as a sort of V-rack but don't use it ever as a sequencer.

Theres so much good stuff out there it boggles my mind.

[nk_e]

...Theres so much good stuff out there it boggles my mind.

+1,000,000 there.