Consolidate Windows, or no?

[Frodo]

In hobbitville, we like the concept of CW-- at least until a ginormous second monitor finds its way to town.

First off, when did you move from Baggend? I didn't get the change of address notice! Isn't Hobbitville a step down? Or are you writing from your summer home?

LOL! It's all the same. "Hobbitville" is more or less my own descriptive term for a way of thinking or a particular frame of mind. Hobbiton is the actual village name. Bag End is the name of the estate/home itself. It' all means nothing more than "this neck of the woods".

Second, I believe you provided the answer I would give. If you... I mean with 2 monitors, consolidated windows seems irksome and limited. I prefer separate windows and I guess that's a personal decision. But I also don't think of the various aspects of music creation in the same way. Editing a soundbite to me is a technical aspect and editing actual notes another. My little brain wants to separate those and other procedures into neat little boxes. Their own little boxes, and con/windows makes me shift my brain too much. I get a better "mind shift" if the 'look' of the various windows changes. My brain says: Oh, you want to edit MIDI? Well, don 't think about audio. Con/Windows seems to say: Oh, you want to edit MIDI? Well don't forget you got some soundbites over here fella!

Also, con/windows do not allow you to set user tabs as to what the window choices will be across the top of the window. I will never use song editor and almost never use quickscribe, yet those tabs are immutable. If I could determine what will appear there, I'd give c/w a more serious look. Until then, I'm on 2 monitors.

Indeed. I can't think of a time when I'd need to have the SE and GE open at the same time-- they are two very different parts of production to my thinking; two very different mindsets, both very involved. Each needs lots of space just to determine what's going on. If I'm doing MIDI, I'll want the TO open for easy viewing (ie: "overview"), but I'll use the GE mostly with some secondary work in QS where manipulating notes in non-consecutive tracks for orchestral scores is essential. If I'm editing audio, I put all MIDI out of my mind because audio editing gets so mentally intensive.

I will say this: using CW in DP is a lot easier than using it in Logic. There are so many plugins and VIs that are designed to sit on top of the DAW window that doing anything smoothly is impossible without two monitors or without opening-closing/docking-undocking windows tediously. At least in DP many plugins will jump to the rear of the window stack, but for those that don't the longing for a second monitor prevails.

As for what size that second monitor should be-- hmm. I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. I could probably get away with a second Apple Cinema 23" for some types of projects in some apps like DP. But for Logic and Finale a 30" monitor (or a pair of them) would be sweet, even if financially impractical right now.

Still, I'm surprised at how much work I'm actually getting done with one monitor. The sheer amount of work itself is what's fueling a reassessment of workflow right now. One thing I find tricky with CW is the need for more *vertical* space. Again, resizing these windows is easy enough, but I've found the repetitive process of resizing each of the windows within the consolidated format mentally distracting and time consuming at critical moments. That alone is a vote for Window Sets with instant key strokes as opposed to multiple mouse dragging of window frames each time one wants a peek at some elusive parameter.

I don't know that I'd do more work if I could further streamline my workflow. I don't think I'd *want* to do more work, to be honest. I just knocked off 11 scores in the past 5 weeks, more than 60 orchestral scores (and a dozen or so other types of projects) within the past year. What I would like to see is the investment in a large second monitor or a pair of ginormous monitors result in more free time before the end of each day.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Being on a somewhat limited monitor budget, I am using 2 19" Viewsonic VX910's. On in portrait, one in landscape. This is great in Finale as I can edit in scroll mode on one and page mode in the other. They are on arms that swivel and the OS makes it easy to rotate the image for longer scroll or multiple pages - which Finale does very well now. Sure, I'd rather have a 23" & a 30" as well. But I'll wait for a client to pay for them

BTW, talk about luck? I was walking home from the Farmer's Market just now and someone had abandoned a Canon MP530 on the street. Guess they upgraded and didn't want to bother going to the thrift store or recycle so they left it on the grass near the curb. I am guessing they got a new printer and just didn't want to deal with it. Well, the New Yorker in me kicked in and it was only 3 blocks from my place, so I grabbed it.

All the way home my wife was saying: Michael, put it back. It's not going to work...

Plugged it in. Nothing wrong with it. Works great, even has ink! It's a MFC with a wonderful (28 ppm b/w; 19 ppm/color) print speed plus /scan/fax/copy/PicBridge. Lists for $300 and is clean as a whistle. One can never have too many fast printers in production!

I'd better go buy a lottery ticket today! Then we're off to elfland, Frodo! Man, those blond elves just do something to me...

[Frodo]

Plugged it in. Nothing wrong with it. Works great, even has ink! It's a MFC with a wonderful (28 ppm b/w; 19 ppm/color) print speed plus /scan/fax/copy/PicBridge. Lists for $300 and is clean as a whistle. One can never have too many fast printers in production!

I knew you'd fall for that. I rigged it up so that once you plugged it in all of your hard drive data would be wi-fi'd to NORAD!

I'd better go buy a lottery ticket today! Then we're off to elfland, Frodo! Man, those blond elves just do something to me...

Be careful. Those elf women are immortal. They draw in human men in an eternal stream. As next of kin, they don't get "half"-- they take ALL!!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Be careful. Those elf women are immortal.

There are elf women too!

[ghobish]

I'm using Consolidated Windows AND two monitors- (I have multiple CWs on my wish list). AND I use Window Sets. (How's THAT for bet-hedging?)

I have a CW with (mostly) SE on the right; on the left I have a full mix screen, soundbites, markers.

[kwiz]

I use a "30 and a "24 with CW. To me, CW's is one of DP's best features. That with window sets and the commands function make customizing your work flow almost limitless.

[Shooshie]

In hobbitville, we like the concept of CW-- at least until a ginormous second monitor finds its way to town.

First off, when did you move from Baggend? I didn't get the change of address notice! Isn't Hobbitville a step down? Or are you writing from your summer home?

Second, I believe you provided the answer I would give. If you... I mean with 2 monitors, consolidated windows seems irksome and limited. I prefer separate windows and I guess that's a personal decision. But I also don't think of the various aspects of music creation in the same way. Editing a soundbite to me is a technical aspect and editing actual notes another. My little brain wants to separate those and other procedures into neat little boxes. Their own little boxes, and con/windows makes me shift my brain too much. I get a better "mind shift" if the 'look' of the various windows changes. My brain says: Oh, you want to edit MIDI? Well, don 't think about audio. Con/Windows seems to say: Oh, you want to edit MIDI? Well don't forget you got some soundbites over here fella!

Also, con/windows do not allow you to set user tabs as to what the window choices will be across the top of the window. I will never use song editor and almost never use quickscribe, yet those tabs are immutable. If I could determine what will appear there, I'd give c/w a more serious look. Until then, I'm on 2 monitors.

Consolidated Windows never makes me feel so rigid unless I want all the major windows to be full screen. Even THAT can be as easy as a keyboard tap. I've got CW settings for full-screen MIDI, full screen MIXER (with Tracks Overview above or below it), and full screen Sequence Editor. Even full screen TO Window. There is no need to feel cramped because of CW's. Now, my favorite thing was putting all those windows in their own "Space," but DP 6.01 effectively killed off that wonderful feature in regard to DP.

I like CW's, because if I want to quickly take a look at another window -- say, CPU monitor or Soundbites, or any of the various little windows we normally aren't looking at -- it's so quick and easy to open them, use them for a while, and then poof, they're gone -- all without having to resize all the other windows on the screen. That is SOOOOOO much easier than doing it without CWs. Honestly, I think the CW is one of the best features to come along in years. Yes, I still have situations where I use individual windows, but it's getting rare for me to do that anymore.

The best thing is to figure out all the ways you like to arrange your windows, your normal workflows, and create window settings for each in the CW. Then they're all just a click away. There's no reason NOT to have a full-screen MIDI Edit Window that is actually a part of CW. It can still be the only thing on the screen, and you still get the advantages of opening other windows without having to resize that one.

Then of course, you need to remember your keyboard commands for all your window sets. I use my cheat sheet; one of many that I use with DP:



It's not necessary to do that, but I find it easy on the memory to have those codes right in front of me when I forget one.

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

The best thing is to figure out all the ways you like to arrange your windows, your normal workflows, and create window settings for each in the CW.

You are way more organized that I am - or probably will ever be. But I see your point about using both CW and regular windows. Actually I may give that a try as you described. Good ideas.

Thanks.

[Shooshie]

Speaking of being organized, QuicKeys adds to that exponentially. In fact, I think I'm going to post something in a new thread about using multiple triggers with QK. The number of keyboard commands is almost infinite, or at least far more than a single person could ever use in a single application. But what makes it great is the way you organize them. It's not even hard to do. Hmmm... I think I'll write something up and post it.


Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Speaking of being organized, QuicKeys adds to that exponentially. In fact, I think I'm going to post something in a new thread about using multiple triggers with QK. The number of keyboard commands is almost infinite, or at least far more than a single person could ever use in a single application. But what makes it great is the way you organize them. It's not even hard to do. Hmmm... I think I'll write something up and post it.


Shooshie

And happy post 8300! Yikes, we're all gettin' older. Wiser? Maybe not so much.

[maintiger]

I hate consolidated windows...

[Frodo]

Honestly, I think the CW is one of the best features to come along in years.

I hate consolidated windows...

This is what's so great about a forum like this. And you know what?

Everyone's right!

[bdr]

Yes. I like to have the TO and Mixer off to the LHS in a CW, mixer toggling to current track and maybe show 2 or 3 mixer strips (kinda like ilLogic). Everything else is off to the 2nd monitor as separate windows.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Yes. I like to have the TO and Mixer off to the LHS in a CW, mixer toggling to current track and maybe show 2 or 3 mixer strips...

Sometimes, when it's late and I'm alone, ...

Never mind.

[monkey man]

In hobbitville, we like the concept of CW-- at least until a ginormous second monitor finds its way to town.

First off, when did you move from Baggend? I didn't get the change of address notice! Isn't Hobbitville a step down? Or are you writing from your summer home?

Amazing. I was thinking about this today. Seriously!

FWIW Magilla, Hobbitville is around 1.5 Mount Doom trips from The Shire north of Jungleville. I think.

EDIT: I'd missed Frodo's answer to this. Let's just say that Jungleville is 1.5 Shire-to-Mt Doom-trips south of the Hobbity Zone.