N.I. Guitar Rig: New Price: Any Good?

[thracks]

Hey All,

I just noticed Sweetwater has dropped the price of Guitar Rig by about $150.00. I've been thinking about this and other amp simulators for some time now, but I've never jumped. This brings Guitar Rig in line with Line 6 Podxt. So does anyone use this software? If so, how does it work with DP?

[David Polich]

Guitar Rig sounds great. The problem I have with software amp simulators is that it's not possible to plug in a guitar to your audio interface and record with them without some latency (unless they reside on a card like TC Powercore or the UAD-1).

So for a little more money, I'd get the Vox Tonelab hardware unit.
Hands down the best hardware guitar amp simulator I've used (and I've used every one of them, from Line 6 to Rocktron to Digitech to
SansAmp, etc.).

I tracked a guitar session yesterday, and the teenage guitar player insisted on bringing his huge Carvin Legacy Steve Vai amp and cabinet in. We mic'd it with an AudioTechnica ATM4033, into a dbx 576 tube mic pre and into DP. I had him play another track using the Tonelab. The Tonelab blew the Carvin away. I know, Carvin makes crap, but I've had the same thing happen with people bringing in Fender reissue amps and Marshall solid state amps. I just get better results with the Tonelab.

That said, I like having amp simulator VI's for insert effects on synth tracks, bass tracks, even drums and vocals. Anytime you need a vibe where it sounds like an amp was mic'd. There's more detail and "grillcloth" sound in Guitar Rig, to my ears, than there is in Amplitube or Amp Farm. I haven't heard Amplitube 2 or the very latest version of Amp Farm, so I'm only going by the previous versions.

<small>[ August 03, 2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Dave Polich ]</small>

[chrispick]

Out of the amp sim plug-ins I've heard and messed with, NI Guitar Rig sounds the most authentic. I'm using it on a job right now and it's working really great. And I'm playing parts that sit on top of the mix, not buried within (which is usually where amp sim parts resided prior to owning NI GR).

I should add that I'm not the biggest fan of Line6 gear, but a lot of people do like them.

Anyway...

You do have to devise a workaround to deal with NI GR and latency. If you want to play and hear the sim without too much "slapback," you're talking buffers in the 128 to 256 top ballpark. That said, being able to then "reamp" to your heart's delight thereafter is nice and a piece of cake. And it offers a ton of versatility (although a few of the modulation effects are a tad weak IMO -- but still usable).

NI GR can be a bit of a CPU hog, depending the complexity of your virtual amp / effect / cabinet set-up.

Like stated earlier, it does sound great with keyboard and drum sounds too.

<small>[ August 03, 2005, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: heavypick ]</small>

[Splinter]

I've used Amp farm and own Amplitube. I've listened to the GR demos. To me the GR demos, assuming NI was putting their best foot forward, couldn't touch the realism and vibe of Amplitube. GR was just too squeaky and digital sounding, where Amplitube just sounds like a real amp, not a simulator. Amplitube 2 should been out... well... yesterday, whenever IK gets their act together, and it is supposed to take things to even the next level. I'd hold out for it.

I've worked with a couple of tone-head guitarists who own the Vox ToneLab and they both love it. There are obvious upsides to going this route. The huge benefit of a plug in is the ability to change and customize the sound later.

[Tim]

Originally posted by Splinter:
The huge benefit of a plug in is the ability to change and customize the sound later.

Just what I need, even more choices at mix time.

[richardein]

1. Amp simulators sound nothing like genuine amps any more than recordings of pianos sound like real pianos.

2. If you must use an amp simulator, Guitar Rig seems okay, but after trying the GR demo I bought and prefer Amplitube. Again, it does not sound like an amp, but it sounds a bit warmer and more "realistic."

3. My wife gave me the Jimi Hendrix Experience pedal by digitech for my birthday. It sounds better than either GR or Amplitube and can be customized and played in all sorts of interesting ways. Hooked up to a guitar amp (set with a clean sound), it is quite an exciting pedal.

4. There is no reason, if you can't make up your mind on the spot (I often don't want to), why you can't mult the output of your guitar, or the mic, and print a clean track along with your processed track. That way, you can post process to your heart's content.

[BKK-OZ]

I use a Pod, but honestly, I think of it essentially as a pre-amp, I don't use its effects (unless I am going for a crazy sound) and I only use the amp sims in moderation.

I then run my signal thru my Kurzweil Mangler (luv the name!) because its effects are just sooo much better than your average pedal and I can do tempo sync too.

I have Amplitube, but I think of it more as a toy than anything - with the latency issue there is just no way I could play things in with it, and usually I like to 'play' the guitar+effect.

Haven't heard the NI rig, but then there's that new one out too Waves Guitar

[iMAS]

I'd hold off on the NI guitar rig for now.

Waves is coming out with their own...check it out Here...and while you're there, sign up for a free dvd presentation.

Not to mention Amplitude 2 (which I heard blows away amplitude 1) is coming out september.

<small>[ August 03, 2005, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: iMAS ]</small>

[el gennaro]

It's design is well coneived. It's full to play with. It's a very usefull plugin.
Is it worth the money?
I think yes .
The demo say's it all.

[thracks]

Thanks for the responses, very helpful.

[DonaldDriver]

I really thought it was cool, but I still prefer to go into the computer with a real tube preamp. Then I really butcher things with Reaktor

[chrispick]

What kind of music do you make, Thracks?

If it's in the pop / rock / dance / electronica arena, then I think you could get a lot out of NI Guitar Rig. I find myself adding it to bass guitar, keyboard and percussion tracks. Its Leslie sim is great, in fact (as those things go).

BTW: I also own Amplitube LE, an abridged version of the app, and it fits nicely in this work process as well. I find I use it less than NI GR, but it does have its own distinctive color.

BTW2: If cash flow is an issue, NI also makes their Combo series which is some of the amps from NI GR stripped down and sold individually.

As is the subtext with many of the posts in this thread, amp cabinet sim plugs are a compromised substitution for miking a real amp. However, they can be great complements to real amp tracks, especially if you DI the guitar simultaneously.

<small>[ August 04, 2005, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: heavypick ]</small>

[thracks]

I make electronic music, mainly. I know that sounds vague but I hate all the labels for various genres. My questions about Guitar Rig are actually much more complex, since I don't even own an electric guitar (yet). I only play acoustic guitar at this point, and it is my primary starting point for composition. But when it comes to the final product, it's anything but an acoustic coffee house sing along. No offense to all you coffee housers. (a joke. that's a can of worms we shouldn't open here)

[Kind Of Loud]

I make electronic music, mainly. I know that sounds vague but I hate all the labels for various genres. My questions about Guitar Rig are actually much more complex, since I don't even own an electric guitar (yet). I only play acoustic guitar at this point, and it is my primary starting point for composition. But when it comes to the final product, it's anything but an acoustic coffee house sing along. No offense to all you coffee housers.

Heavypick, your comments have me leaning towards Guitar Rig, as I am not looking to fool anyone into thinking I've got a room full of amps. And if it's as flexible as it sounds it'll come in handy for many different types of audio tracks.

Now, how about some guitar advice (a joke. that's a can of worms we shouldn't open here)

--------------------
Steve


If I were you brother, get a Line 6 Variax Guitar and a PODXT Pro. You WILL NOT BELIEVE what you can get with a rig like that!

For instance; You can download {for free!] Line6 Edit Software and just sit there in front of your computer monitor and change amps, effects,microphones, speakers cabs....all with the click of your mouse.

With the Variax Guitar, you can get [for free] Guitar Workbench software. Let's say you called up a Les Paul on your Variax...not enuff bite?...hell, throw in a single coil in the bride! A little to bright?....move that sucker towards the neck and warm it up a bit.....endlesss what you can do!

One bit of advice:...the presets that come with the PODXT Pro, flat out suck!....If you have a Marshall type tone or Fender type tone in your head, call up one of those and turn off all the crap they have layered on with it. Build your tone from scratch.

I don't work for Line6....or Budweiser ...but I use both! Line6 blows the doors off the NI Guitar Rig.....TURN IT UP!!!

[BKK-OZ]

Thracks, just saw this review @ CreateDigitalMusic and remembered your thread.