MOTU 896 mk3 preamps compared with 828 mk3's pres

[Umbrella]

Hello all,

Does anyone have any experience with both of these units (896 mk3, 828 mk3)? If anyone could comment on any differences (or lack thereof) in the quality of the preamps/conversion between the two, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, the A/D D/A components (clock, analog stage, converter chip) are the same between the two units, no?

Soon I'm going to upgrade from an 828mkii. I'm looking for something with built-in DSP, so interfaces like RME FF and Duet/Ensemble are off my list; Metric Halo looks nice but is out of my price range.

MOTU's website states in typical cryptic fashion that the 896 mk3 pres have "over 60dB of gain" whereas the 828 mk3's pres have 53dB.

This would suggest that the 896 mk3 pres are a step up, yes? I'm a fan of high gain pres (DAV BHG, Wunder PA-4, etc..), particularly because they are super useful for ribbons, dynamics, recording quiet sources, etc.. I'm not expecting the 896 mk3 pres to be on par with the expensive stuff, but I would love to be wrong!! I'm wondering if the 896 mk3's pres might be in the same league as those on a BLA modded MOTU interface..?

Anyone out there with any real world experience with the 896 mk3 and/or 828 mk3 care to chime in?

thanks,
Paul

ps - I'm also seriously considering the TC Studio Konnekt 48. If anyone could comment on the SK48's pres/converters in comparison with the others mentioned (particularly the 896 mk3), that would be great!

[Umbrella]

Bump Anyone?

[therealbigd]

Im sure they're the same!

[Umbrella]

Im sure they're the same!

Why does MOTU describe the 896mk3 pres on the website as having "over 60dB of boost"? If I'm not mistaken, the other mk3 interfaces have 53dB gain pres if I'm not mistaken..

[therealbigd]

theres one of two reasons i guess...

- im wrong and they are different
- dB in itself means absolutely nothing and the unit of dB that they've used on the 896 page differs to that used on the 828 page...

[Umbrella]

Oh, well thanks for clarifying that. Actually, dB in terms of mic gain should mean -something- - for example - a 1272 doesn't have as much gain as a 1073. An API 512c doesn't have as much gain as a John Hardy. I haven't looked back at MOTU's website, but to me the posted, "over 60dB of boost" is deceptive if this is the way they subtly market the 896mk3 as having different preamps from the rest of the mk3 series.

theres one of two reasons i guess...

- im wrong and they are different
- dB in itself means absolutely nothing and the unit of dB that they've used on the 896 page differs to that used on the 828 page...

[mhschmieder]

In a separate post that I do not have time to hunt down right now, Magic Dave says all the mk III units are the same except for form factor and connectivity options/features. A followup question asked if this also meant the converters were the same on all mk III units, but I don't think that got answered yet.

[therealbigd]

Oh, well thanks for clarifying that. Actually, dB in terms of mic gain should mean -something- - for example - a 1272 doesn't have as much gain as a 1073. An API 512c doesn't have as much gain as a John Hardy. I haven't looked back at MOTU's website, but to me the posted, "over 60dB of boost" is deceptive if this is the way they subtly market the 896mk3 as having different preamps from the rest of the mk3 series.

theres one of two reasons i guess...

- im wrong and they are different
- dB in itself means absolutely nothing and the unit of dB that they've used on the 896 page differs to that used on the 828 page...

it's common for manufacturers to use different units of dB to make things look better than they are. 110dB efficiency is good for a PA speaker, 110dB max spl isn't. but many cheap manufacturers, perhaps with an efficiency of 100dB, and max spl of 120dB, will simply advertise the speaker as being "120dB".

[Umbrella]

Just curious where you found the different dB scale for the 896mk3 on their website.. Or do you own both?

[mhschmieder]

Yes, it's easy to throw a few dB around here and there .

Always take specs with a grain of salt, and look for the qualifiers (or lack thereof, which can also be telling).

[Armageddon]

Soon I'm going to upgrade from an 828mkii. I'm looking for something with built-in DSP, so interfaces like RME FF and Duet/Ensemble are off my list; Metric Halo looks nice but is out of my price range.

Unfortunately, the new interfaces have built-in DSP (I assume you mean, aside from CueMix), but they don't actually show up in your AU or MAS plugins as "powered plugs", like on a Konnekt. They're for use in the onboard mixer only, though, if you wanted to route them out of their own output on mixdown, you could technically set them up as auxiliary channels inside of DP and bus to them that way, it's just not quite the powered plug scenario it appears to be. The literature on this from MOTU is very misleading and I actually had to e-mail the sales' department at MOTU about it when I was shopping for a new interface to confirm it.

ps - I'm also seriously considering the TC Studio Konnekt 48. If anyone could comment on the SK48's pres/converters in comparison with the others mentioned (particularly the 896 mk3), that would be great!

I wound up buying a TC Konnekt 24D as my interface, and the sound quality is amazing, especially the mic pres, which has never been MOTU's strong suit on their interfaces, in my opinion. In fact, the pres were one of my main deciding factors in a new audio interface, since I graduated from an 828 Original, and was using a Mackie mixer's pres (the 828's were horrible) and routing a line signal into the 828. TC's software console is comparable to CueMix, and you can also program all your parameters from the interface itself, as well as use it as a standalone mixer with built-in effects. So far, it's worked just fine with DP 5.1.3, 6.01 and 6.02. The built-in MIDI is also rock-solid.

One small complaint about the Konnekt, and this might not even apply to the 48, which I think has the "Studio" version of the two powered plugs, Fabrik R (reverb) and Fabrik C (compressor) -- and yes, these are both true powered AU plugs or effects you can use inside of the self-contained mixer -- is that both built in effects are only available up to 48 kHz. Starting at 88.2 kHz, you can choose one or the other to be your powered effect, and after 96 kHz, you don't get either effect. Since the software and firmware is open-ended, this might even be eventually addressed in an update, which you can also perform right from the software console, and again, I'm not sure if this applies to the 48, which is a significant step up from mine. It also comes with Assimilator (not a powered plug, by the way), which I haven't messed with yet, though, considering how much use I got out of Arboretum's Ionizer, I'm sure I'll get to eventually.