amplitube vs Line 6 Pod XT

[mhschmieder]

Well, have you compared your system specs to mine?

And AmpliTube was running inside DP, not standalone. But DP was the only app running on my system.

One thing I forgot to mention last night about Overloud's guitar effects suite is that it is too tall to fit on my 15" screen, and the grab handle is off the screen so I can't resize it either. This means I am missing important parts of the interface, such as the knobs below the main window, and maybe more.

Also, in my foggy state of mind at 330am, I may not have been clear enough in stating that an honest evaluation of TH1 should use only the 70's setup, as that's the only one of the eight preset setups that doesn't add signal processing to the chain.

Otherwise, the impact of Breverb and other effects obfuscates the direct comparison to AmpliTube, Vintage Amp Room, Metal Amp Room, Guitar Rig, Revalver (in the case of AmpliTube, I made sure to only use Pure Amp setups, for comparison purposes). TH1's 70's setup is muffled/dry and very 2D; not airy at all.

Notice I didn't bring the Waves suite into the equation. That's because I tried some Waves plug-ins several years ago, and therefore can never try any again . What a ludicrous policy.

[Dwetmaster]

Well I'm not interested in any of the Wave stuff for personal choice. I've tried A'tube within DP no Problem. I will try that TH1 probably tomorrow...

[mhschmieder]

Just remember that the early bird discount on Overloud TH1 is only valid until 30 November.

[Dwetmaster]

Daaaaaamn you're right. I'll seriously think about it before then...

[Dwetmaster]

I just kinda went through it quickly with an already recorded track I had. I compared it side by side with A'tube and I think that both can do the job I need a guitar plugin to do. I probably don't a picky ear like you for Guitar FX so Now I'm just more confused. I found that they both brought the guitar track I had to life in their respective way. I guess I can't rule the Breeverb thing out in TH1 as A'tube also have a little from the Rack FX at hte of its signal chain.

I don't know what to say man besides that I don't think I'll shed the extra $$ for a POD XT. I think one of these plug can do the job really good.

[mhschmieder]

I agree . My main gripe with the Pod stuff is I feel it falls down in the bass department, and that's my main thing... I may not be as picky as you think when it comes to electric guitar effects, but I do have well-trained ears so notice details.

Yeah, each of these guitar plugs has its strengths, and it's a bit expensive to buy them all. I'm just about to shut down the browser and the internet to run through some more test cases.

Remember that I used the pure amps in AmpliTube 2 vs. the 70's setup in TH1 for my final evaluation, so that I wouldn't be confused by differences in the effects and reverbs. But in a close tie, those would probably push the deal towards TH1.

In some ways, AmpliTube is more expensive due to the special-case variants for bass, Jimi Hendrix 60's vintage, and Metal 80's and 90's vintage. The Softube prices are more confusing due to native vs. PoCo, and package deals.

[mhschmieder]

I'm taking a little time out from my session to destroy my system performance by launching the browser . If I wait any longer, I'll forget some key points of what I have learned so far tonight about TH1.

I did find the manual, which installed as part of the demo installer, and it is extremely well written and absolutely essential -- I doubt anyone could learn how to use this plug-in without it, as there is too much locational context and mouse sensitivity on single vs. multi-clicks for blind experimentation to be likely to be very elucidating.

Please disregard my comment about selecting the 70's setup to get a dry sound for neutral evaluation of the core amp modeling engine. The performance of this plug-in is not very good on my box; nor does its entire GUI show up or allow me to resize or move it. So now that I've read the manual, I understand the top panel better, and realise I was on some random factory preset, one of whose eight button-shortcut variabts happened to be dry and was labeled "70's". Each preset has different variants (or none at all) and different labels for them.

My hopes were dashed though after exploring all of the available effects, as someone had written (elsewhere) that it had a Talk Wah effect, which of course I was hoping would be more flexible than the one in Guitar Rig 3 (currently the most advanced Talk Box emulator available as a software plug-in). This turned out not to be the case; though it does have four Wah-wah variants, one of which is a simple Mu-Tron type.

At any rate, I am impressed now by the interface and its flexible routing. It just takes some time to learn the unique paradigm, but it becomes intuitive quickly and results in less clutter, more focus, and a clearer overview at appropriate levels of workflow, than any other current guitar effects suite IMHO.

There are eight amp models available, with obfuscated names but pretty obvious in each case. There are a couple dozen or so mic models to choose from, but I haven't gone through them thoroughly yet to identify them all (some are very obvious). I think the ribbon mic they advertise in their marketing hype is probably an AEA model.

I haven't done any sound evaluation tonight; I'm just trying to learn the interface visually. I think due to how much time it takes to set up a good preset, I'll probably just run through some of their factory preset examples first, and then do some of my own to match settings that I had already come up with on AmpliTube 2, for direct comparison. My main task tonight was to learn how to work the plug-in GUI so that I know how to create setups, and it's actually way easier than the other guitar effects suites as no workflow, order, or hierarchy of editing is imposed.

At each point in the signal flow, you simply right-click to bring up all available choices. ou don't have to enter a specific module to have access to effects vs. amps vs. mics, for instance. I think this is a refreshing approach, as someone who wrote MCAD software for many years and heard customers complain about the need for after-the-fact ability to edit a top-down model from the bottom-up, or even from the middle. That is, support for arbitrary editing.

[mhschmieder]

Considering what an important role Breverb plays in TH1 in many of the more spacious and "live" sounding presets (the ones that make you feel like you're standing in front of the amp, vs. in the audience, and make you think you can feel actual air moving), I thought it a good idea to go ahead and start my Breverb vs. CSR evaluation now, so I am more familiar with the character of Breverb (this is the reverb plug that is the favourite over at Gearslutz).

CSR is way more transparent for Plate Reverb, and maybe Inverse Reverb as well, and definitely has that Lexicon "sound". Breverb sounds completely different and isn't remotely transparent for Plate or Inverse Reverb, has a fairly different set of controls from CSR's advanced editing page, and apparently emulates Eventide (which I have no first-hand experience with in the studio).

I think Breverb is nice for colour, but I figure I'll already have colour from SoundToys on such tracks and won't want more. Hard to say, but I doubt I'd emphasise the Plate and Inverse Reverbs in the choice. I didn't check again with TH1 to see which specific reverb types it exposes from Breverb, but I'm guessing either Plate or Room (or both).

I'm too tired to do more tonight, but quick evaluation of Breverb's Hall and Room indicates both to be more transparent than CSR's rather dark and muffled Hall and somewhat Kurzweil KSP-ish Room Reverb. But I rarely use either anymore, except when a piece only has one horn/brass/wind part and I don't want to go for convolution reverb.

Which brings me to the strangeness of the Breverb audio demos page. It is almost entirely acoustic instruments, and only the piano and guitar examples sound musical to my ears; everything else sounds artificial and better dry. These are almost all instruments for which I would reach for convolution reverb vs. algorithmic reverb. The vocal examples are dreadful but are improved by the reverb . Where do these vendors dig up these singers?

I guess the next step would be to combine a relatively dry TH1 setting with CSR and compare that to one that uses a similar Breverb setting -- but it's very hard to match Breverb to CSR due to such different controls.

[mhschmieder]

Many many many many many crashes later, I have made a final decision regarding TH1.

Tonight I spent several hours playing my PRS SE Custom live, vs. using pre-recorded tracks that were being re-amped or had gone through amp modelers or effects when originally recorded. So this was my first test using a clean DI signal.

AmpliTube wins hands-down. It is transparent, and does not disguise the basic timbre of the guitar. IT also sounds much more three-dimensional using a real guitar than pre-recorded tracks; whilst the stereo image and depth of TH1 seemed artificial in comparison. The other difference tonight is that I used my KRK Rockit 6 monitors vs. Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro headphones.

I just wish AmpliTube didn't crash so readily, and in such a severe way that I have to turn off my external hard drives without ejecting them first, due to the computer freezing up 100% even after 30 minutes of waiting.

Anyway, AmpliTube covers the most bases compared to Vintage Amp Room. The latter is better for pure amp modeling with no effects or other things going on in the signal chain, but only covers the classic sounds. I may still buy it eventually for what it is good at, along with Metal Amp Room. They hold up to scrutiny when using a Les Paul style guitar in real time.

TH1 really does rely on gimmicks to make it sound good at all, and it really never sounds like any real vintage amps. When they really kick in the reverb, they do succeed in producing a lot of air and sense of being next to the amp; whereas AmpliTube sounds like you are monitoring your amp as it is being miked -- but for me, that's fine, as I wouldn't be using it on stage anyway, and this way I have a better idea of how to judge the sound since I know how recorded guitar sounds.

I just don't think Overloud has done a good job of emulating classic sounds in any of their gear. They have a sound of their own, and in certain combinations it can deliver a powerful and energetic "new amp design" (as can Breverb with "new reverb design"), so I guess their products are better as creative tools than for trying to get a specific sound you are familiar with.

I find AmpliTube sits in the mix extremely well with very little if any tweaking required. Vintage Amp Room and Metal Amp Room would in most cases require some extra processing for the full signal path (effects, etc.), and TH1 would just overpower any mix unless you turn off the Phat Mode. Even then, it seems they are going for a real-time live use as their goal, vs. a sound that works well in the recording and mixing context.

I will pass on this short-term promotional offer on TH1, and remain satisfied with AmpliTube 2 and AmpliTube Jimi Hendrix (along with Ampeg SVX and occasional use of Guitar Rig 3 for special purpose applications like Talk Wah). The AmpliTube Metal audio demos all sounded awful to me, so I don't regret missing my chance to get that free by cancelling my order for T-rackS 3 this week.

[Dwetmaster]

AFAIC
To me a dream plug would be Amplitube sound with TH1 GUI AND Patch Browser. That Patch browser is VERY Nice!!!

I also found that out of the box Amplitube was more effective for a newbie like me...

[monkey man]

No Line 6 hardware product has ever crashed my computer.

[mhschmieder]

I missed a few posts earlier, so just wanted to clarify that my comparison of Line6 sonic fidelity and noise levels vs. Behringer is totally focused on their respective bass modeling products; not their standard guitar modeling products.

[monkey man]

A-ha! Thank you, Mark.

Now it makes sense to me. Heck, I had issues with HF "burbling"/capacitance-discharge-type noises from an earlier bass POD myself. It must be the guitar products, as I said, that exhibit this symptom.

[mhschmieder]

For some interesting perspective on what a great forum we have here, I checked out the TH1 topic at KVR's forum today.

36 pages of postings, almost all of which were devoted to complaints about USB dongles, and name-calling. Only a couple of posts that actually had anything informative at all to say about TH1 itself!

[Dwetmaster]

But what was the general opinion?