REAMPING

[guitrriff514]

I would like to record a guitar directly into logic, and then at a later time send that signal out and reamp it through an amp. I have a Motu 896HD and I was wondering if I need a DI box as well? Or can I just send the signal into the MOTU and that gain stage will be enough?

ALSO if I do send it into the MOTU, does it go in as MIC, or LINE?

Thanks!

[1nput0utput]

You don't necessarily need a DI box because you can connect a guitar directly to the 1/4" portion of the 896HD's analog inputs. That's essentially the same as using a DI in-line between the guitar and the 896HD mic (XLR) inputs.

[guitrriff514]

so should I have my motu pre amp set to MIC or LINE? I'd have to use the pre amp trim also right?

[Resonant Alien]

Gain is not really the potential problem - it is the impedance of the input. Guitars have a very high output impedance and if the input impedance of the device you are connecting to does not match close enough, you will load down your pickups and your tone will suffer. You may get enough gain, but you will not be getting the full tone of your instrument. The 828 has specific instrument inputs which have a higher impedance that the mic or line inputs for this reason. I am not sure about the 896, but it appears to only have mic and line inputs, so I would be suspicious if this would give you the best results. It would probably "work", but how well I am not sure. Personally, I would invest in a good quality DI. I have an RME Fireface 800 which has an actual instrument input, but I still run through a DI because I think it sounds better.

Now, when you go to play the track back and send it to your guitar amp, you will need a reamp device to put between the output of the 896 and the input of the amp. You cannot run a line level signal directly into a guitar amp. The best reamp box is supposedly the "REAMP" for about $200. Radial also makes an X-Amp that does the same thing for about the same price. Radial also sells a remping package which includes both a DI and the X-Amp.

[therealbigd]

a passive DI box plugged in backwards will also do this, as long as you use the line level jack from the 896 and the instrument level jack to the amp input.

you may wish to look at the DI Box schematics first on the company website, to check there's not a diode in it.

that's what we have to do in the UK, you can't buy re-amps here...

[conleycd]

You could run line level into an amplifier but it will probably be too loud and your amplifier is anticipating a much higher impedance than the low level impedance of audio interface outputs. If you want to run through some effects pedals (chorus, flanger, or delay) you could run it at -10 instead of +4 and probably be ok but overdrive/distortion/and amplifier boxes like the impedance of a guitar.

If you are handy with a soldering iron or have a friend who is you can make this box for under $100.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/as/as092.pdf

It is uses a transformer to get things in the right area. It basically requires a couple of pots, a resistor, a capacitor, the transformer, and likely a box like a Hammond box. Again, probably done for under $100.

You can always buy the commercially available ones described already.

CC

[resolectric]

I would like to record a guitar directly into logic, and then at a later time send that signal out and reamp it through an amp. I have a Motu 896HD and I was wondering if I need a DI box as well? Or can I just send the signal into the MOTU and that gain stage will be enough?
ALSO if I do send it into the MOTU, does it go in as MIC, or LINE?

It depends on the guitar amp you're going to use.
You have two options.

If your amp has Pre In/Out you just need a pair of Jack cables.
Motu Line Out > amp Pre In
amp Pre Out > Motu Line In

If your amp does not have access to the pre section, use a DI (as therealbigd said) and, of course, a Mic.
In that case it's obvious that you need to connect the reamped sound to MOTU's Mic In since you're capturing the reamped sound with a microphone.
That would be:
Motu Line Out > reverse DI > Amp Guitar In
Amp > Microphone > Motu Mic In

[conleycd]

Yeah,

Using a DI backwards really does NOT work properly for a couple of reasons. You will get sound - but it won't be good. In fact, you are probably better off just using an appropriate connector adapter than using a DI backwards.

A passive DI takes a high impedance load of a pickup and matches it to a low(er) impedance input of a microphone preamp. It does this with a transformer that more turns on the primary compared to the fewer turns on the secondary. Therefore, it matches impedance and it lowers/attenuates the strong instrument signal down to a weak microphone level (these transformers are like 2:1 or 4:1 ratio).

So using a reamp box you are trying to take a strong line level signal and lower it to instrument and match the impedance that these boxes/amplifiers expect (and are designed to operate best within). When used backwards - you get the opposite of wehat you need for a reamp. Instead of the signal getting lowered it gets boosted because now you are running like a 1:4 ratio - the signal gets boosted (depending on the transformer) 2-4x or more. So then you lower your fader or turn down the converter which results in poor s/n performance - and crappo sound.

Take my advice and do it right - you'll regret it any other way.

In the UK there are lots of available options. If you have an electronics guy you can certainly find an appropriate transformer at http://www.sowter.co.uk/. It takes like 6 solder points and a hand full of parts to do it right and cheap. You can make one for less than you could buy a DI (which as stated above) isn't going to work anyway.

CC

[resolectric]

Yeah,

Using a DI backwards really does NOT work properly for a couple of reasons. You will get sound - but it won't be good. In fact, you are probably better off just using an appropriate connector adapter than using a DI backwards....
which results in poor s/n performance - and crappo sound.

Take my advice and do it right - you'll regret it any other way.
...

You can also take my advice and do it the way i said (and the therealbigd said, and several others say and do) since it seems, based on conleycd's experience, that not all DIs work the same.

You can also try to google for key words or sentences (i suggest "di as reamp") and you'll see several reports on how this, in fact, works.
Not to discredit conleycd, of course. What the gentleman says may be true with the DIs he's using and in his own experience.
What i said is true as well.

[Resonant Alien]

There are two things to consider: Will it work? and Will it sound like you want it to? You may be able to rig something up to work. Whether the result sounds good or not is a subjective decision you have to make. Running a guitar directly into a mic or line input will "work" - i.e. you can get enough gain. But it doesn't sound very good and the loading on the pickups has horrible effects on the dynamics of the guitar. Using a DI box in reverse will probably work (never tried it), but technically a DI box is designed to convert instrument level to mic level - you would be trying to feed a line level signal into the mic level side and get an insturment level output - the mismatch of the line input to the mic level side of the DI box may or may not be a problem for you.

I would suggest getting a good DI box first, because, IMO that is a must, no matter what you do about the reamp side, so that you are not running your guitar into an impedance mis-matched mic or line input. But, before you go and buy a reamp box, try out the DI in reverse and see if it works for you and if you are happy with the sound. If you are, great. If not, invest in a real reamp box.

[therealbigd]

well said!

i use an EMO passive DI, and it notably says in the instruction manual that the DI box is wired in such a manner that you can use it in any direction you like.

it works fine for me, and i've met many notable engineers who have had the same successes with them.

obviously, the other thing you can do, is have a good play with Guitar Amp Pro and see how close you can get that to sound to your amp. Might save you a good deal of hassle.