Which of these 2 mics would you use for vocals, and why

[nick danger]

Thanks Brad,

The Mico is one that I've been considering. Thanks for your opinion on it.

[bongo_x]

I'm just chiming in to back up Brad on this one. I think he's right on on this one. One good pre is a pretty good investment. One mediocre mic with a crappy pre isn't that great.

If you're talking rock vocals, a 57 with a good pre can be great. An SM7 is pretty good too, like a 57 that sounds better. It's more expensive though.

bb

[doc7string]

Well if you're using an SM57 on your electric guitar, what micpre are you using for it? How important is your guitar tone?

I want the best tone I can afford. Unfortunately, I am currently building a second home, and with the stock market in the hole I am finding little motivation to drop a grand on a pre. For now I continue to use my 828.

[doc7string]

To give everyone a bit more info about what I am recording:

Mostly distorted electric guitar- Fender strat with a hi gain humbucker (Paul Reed Smith dragon), into a Bogner Shiva head to a Mills Acoustic 4x12 cab (Celestion v 30's). I add effects if any after the track is recorded. Certainly, I do some acoustic, some clean electric etc, but mostly as stated above. When I record clean electric I primarily play through a '78 Fender twin. I have played with both of my mics since posting this and have gotten fairly good results with both. The AT seems a lot more breathy (is that a word) and the 57 more full to me. I have to admit, the guitar is my prominant voice, and a good pre might make more sense for me. Do you guys have a suggestion on a pre. I really only need 1 in and 1 out because as my original post notes, I am recording all tracks myself and am therefore only in need of one. Lets say I have no budget because I would rather wait and buy something that blow my mind thanbuy something that is just better.

Thanks all for your comments, extremely helpful!!!

[monkey man]

I thought Bono used an SM58 in the control room for tracking, with the mix played loudly. I also thought that it was the '58 that's been used frequently of late by some artists, not the '57. Snare and guitar amp would be another story of course, with King '57 being, well, King Utility, IMHO.

I've had many positive experiences over the years with the '58; even a brand-new mic, fresh from its case and tested immediately, that was dropped 1.5m onto concrete in front of me appeared to work and exhibit no signs of tonal damage. The added HF content and intelligibility that the '58 adds over the '57 would IMHO prove useful to the vocalist; the '57's perfectly-compromised HF response suits guitar cabinet work because it softens the by-definition harsh harmonics generated by typical overdriven amp/cab combos.

Bottom line - I'd suggest doc7string buy a '58, regardless of whether or not an extra pre is purchased, simply because the clarity and intelligibility gained for his vox will in itself help to deliver better performances, and also because the task of mixing vocals will likely be simplified too as the tracks should require less tweaking. They can be bought for practically nicks too.

[BradLyons]

To give everyone a bit more info about what I am recording:

Mostly distorted electric guitar- Fender strat with a hi gain humbucker (Paul Reed Smith dragon), into a Bogner Shiva head to a Mills Acoustic 4x12 cab (Celestion v 30's). I add effects if any after the track is recorded. Certainly, I do some acoustic, some clean electric etc, but mostly as stated above. When I record clean electric I primarily play through a '78 Fender twin. I have played with both of my mics since posting this and have gotten fairly good results with both. The AT seems a lot more breathy (is that a word) and the 57 more full to me. I have to admit, the guitar is my prominant voice, and a good pre might make more sense for me. Do you guys have a suggestion on a pre. I really only need 1 in and 1 out because as my original post notes, I am recording all tracks myself and am therefore only in need of one. Lets say I have no budget because I would rather wait and buy something that blow my mind thanbuy something that is just better.

Thanks all for your comments, extremely helpful!!!

Well if money were no object, then it would be the same setup I sent off to Mr Mayer recently.... a Massive Passive and a Slam, from Manley But seriously, and if you are serious about making an improvement, keep the SM57.....get a Universal Audio Solo 610, use it and be surprised. And then if you want to do a second phase upgrade, get a Royer R121 or R122. At that point, you'll be using a combination many other pro's use....and improve your vocals as well, even just adding the pre. You don't need to spend a lot of money here, but if you make the wise investment when you're comfortable to do so, you'll not be disappointed---that is unless your guitar playing stinks like mine! Then again, I don't play guitar....maybe that's why!

[doc7string]

To give everyone a bit more info about what I am recording:

Mostly distorted electric guitar- Fender strat with a hi gain humbucker (Paul Reed Smith dragon), into a Bogner Shiva head to a Mills Acoustic 4x12 cab (Celestion v 30's). I add effects if any after the track is recorded. Certainly, I do some acoustic, some clean electric etc, but mostly as stated above. When I record clean electric I primarily play through a '78 Fender twin. I have played with both of my mics since posting this and have gotten fairly good results with both. The AT seems a lot more breathy (is that a word) and the 57 more full to me. I have to admit, the guitar is my prominant voice, and a good pre might make more sense for me. Do you guys have a suggestion on a pre. I really only need 1 in and 1 out because as my original post notes, I am recording all tracks myself and am therefore only in need of one. Lets say I have no budget because I would rather wait and buy something that blow my mind thanbuy something that is just better.

Thanks all for your comments, extremely helpful!!!

Well if money were no object, then it would be the same setup I sent off to Mr Mayer recently.... a Massive Passive and a Slam, from Manley But seriously, and if you are serious about making an improvement, keep the SM57.....get a Universal Audio Solo 610, use it and be surprised. And then if you want to do a second phase upgrade, get a Royer R121 or R122. At that point, you'll be using a combination many other pro's use....and improve your vocals as well, even just adding the pre. You don't need to spend a lot of money here, but if you make the wise investment when you're comfortable to do so, you'll not be disappointed---that is unless your guitar playing stinks like mine! Then again, I don't play guitar....maybe that's why!

Thanks for the great info. I was editing my last post when you posted this. Please check my my space page and let me know what you think. That is, which pre/mic would be best for me of your suggestions. Of course if you want to comment on my playing, I will take that too. Thanks again.

[bongo_x]

I thought Bono used an SM58 in the control room for tracking,...

I always thought the 57 and 58 were pretty much the same mic except for the windscreen. Close enough for me, I use the names "57" and "58" pretty much interchangeably. I think most people assume if you're going to sing you want a 58, and if you're gonna mic the guitar you want a 57.

bb

[bongo_x]

If I had no budget I'd get a Neve 1073.

bb

[monkey man]

I thought Bono used an SM58 in the control room for tracking,...

I always thought the 57 and 58 were pretty much the same mic except for the windscreen. Close enough for me, I use the names "57" and "58" pretty much interchangeably.
bb

Interesting Bongo-man; not to my ears though. Each to his own, eh?

[HCMarkus]

The SM58 is designed for close miking live vocals, so it has a built in low frequency roll-off to combat proximity effect. Other than that, the 58 is very similar to the 57, and may even use the same diaphragm. Nails can be driven with these mics, but delicacy and transparency are not qualities with which they are generally attributed.

In my world, it is pretty rare to use a dynamic mic to record voice, but I usually like vocals to sound clean, with an extended high frequency response. Of course, exceptions are the rule when it comes to recording. AKA: If it sounds good, do it.

[resolectric]

I thought Bono used an SM58 in the control room for tracking, with the mix played loudly. I also thought that it was the '58 that's been used frequently of late by some artists, not the '57. Snare and guitar amp would be another story of course, with King '57 being, well, King Utility, IMHO.
...

Well, i didn't see him recording that way, but i've read about it, so, that's my only source and it could be wrong.
The same about Madonna. One of the producers on "Bedtime Stories" said she did use a 57 in the control room with main monitors slammin'. And that was to record the main vocal tracks on several of those songs.
Now, about Marley and Dan Lanois usin' 57s to record vocals, there are pics. And, since Lanois is the guy who records Bono 99% of the time, it might be true for Bono as well.
The photo that was available on the web with Lanois recording vocals with 57s was really interesting. He's standing, palying a Danelectro U2, and singing into a pair of 57s attached to each other with adhesive tape. That was a black & white photo, very nice. Unfortunately it's been removed from his website, or i can't find it. There was an interesting photography section there that seems to be gone.

[bongo_x]

I was curious so I did a little Google search. I found this on a discussion:

I was a microphone engineer at Shure.

The SM57 and SM58 are essentially the same, except that the SM57 was intended mainly for instruments and the SM58 for vocals. The SM58 has a ball grille that acts as a pop filter. The two mics have the same proximity effect at the same miking distance.

Because of its smaller grille, the SM57 lets you get closer to it for more bass boost. But if you are 2 inches from the diaphragm in either mic, they have the same bass boost.

They have a slightly different response at high frequencies because of the acoustical effects of the different grilles.

Hope this helps...

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=12391

The specs at the Shure site seem to bear this out. There is a lot of discussion about different theories floating around though.

bb

[BradLyons]

I'll be the first to say that specs on mics mean squat.....it's about how they sound, ya know?

[Phil O]

I'll be the first to say that specs on mics mean squat.....it's about how they sound, ya know?

Well, if you look at the complete specs (and you know what you are looking at), specs can tell you quite a bit. Unfortunately, you rarely see complete specs for a mic published for the public. Most of the time a lot of that info is kept in R&D. About all we ever see is a frequency response curve at a one or two positions and a polar pattern at one to three frequencies. So I guess that doesn't tell you much more than squat.

Phil