What's the best way to sample an old keyboard patch?

[cbergm7210]

So....

I have a Roland U-220 and an XV 5080 that I used to layer two patches between the two modules to get a great bell pad patch that I just cannot find a sub for between all my VI's.

I know, I know, there's got to be a great one out there, right? But between Massive, Absynth, Zebra 2, Sampletank, Kontakt 3 and Plugsound Pro I still can't find one that even comes close to this great layered bell pad that is great for adding sparkle to kids music, jingles, Christmas tunes, etc.

Maybe someone can recommend some bell pad patches between any of those VI's, but meanwhile...

What is the easiest way to sample these two patches? I do not use external modules anymore, so I need to get these into my system. I have only been on DP for 9 months now, so I do not know the best way to sample with a VI yet.

I would assume that I would have to record both patches on all 88 keys, correct? And loop the sustaining part of the sample, correct?

Which VI should I use to do this sampling? Kontakt 3? Massive? Another VI?

Am I going about this the right way in general?

Thanks for the info in advance, guys.

Chris

[1nput0utput]

Sampling every single note across the range of the keyboard would provide the most accurate reproduction in the sampler, but this is probably not necessary. A keygroup in the sampler patch can span multiple notes. For instance, let's say the lowest usable note for the bell patch is C1. You can sample C1, and add it to your sampler patch. That single sample can be mapped to all the notes between C1 and F1, maybe even farther than that. It depends upon how that particular sample sounds when it's pitched up by an interval of a fourth or more. How far you can "stretch" the keygroups depends upon the nature of the sound you're sampling.

The first thing you should try to figure out is roughly how far you can pitch up or pitch down a recording of these synth sounds before they start to sound bad. That will determine how many samples you need to record. For example, you might find out that each sampled note sounds good when it is pitched up by a minor third. Then you need to record only three notes per octave: C1, E1, G#1, C2, E2, G#2, etc. When you add these samples to a sampler patch, the first sample's root note is C1 and it's keygroup range is C1-D#1. The second sample's root note is E1 and it's keygroup range is E1-G1.

[cbergm7210]

Thanks for the rundown! That process is what I expected, so thanks for making it even clearer for me.

The last time I sampled anything at all was probably 2000 on an Ensoniq ASR 10, so now that I have all these VI's in DP I need to pick the easiest one to do this kind of custom sampling.

1nput0utput, do you have a favorite VI that you would recommend to do this work? Kotakt3? Massive?

[1nput0utput]

I used Kontakt 1.5 for a long time because it was always quick and intuitive for me. I made a lot of custom patches with it. I know that Kontakt 2 and 3 are pretty major upgrades. I had MachFive 1 but I never did anything terribly complicated with it. Now I use MachFive 2. For the most part it's fast and easy to use once you work with it for a few hours and flip through the manual a few times.

[SixStringGeek]

What is the easiest way to sample these two patches? I do not use external modules anymore, so I need to get these into my system. I have only been on DP for 9 months now, so I do not know the best way to sample with a VI yet.

I would assume that I would have to record both patches on all 88 keys, correct? And loop the sustaining part of the sample, correct?

Which VI should I use to do this sampling? Kontakt 3? Massive? Another VI?

Am I going about this the right way in general?

I wish I had a piece of software that you could simply run that would generate all the necessary MIDI messages and do the recordings automatically for creating a sampled version of a MIDI instrument. Bonus if it could simply output a patch for sampler X.

Does anybody know of one? Maybe I ought to go write it?

[Spikey Horse]

.....I wish I had a piece of software that you could simply run that would generate all the necessary MIDI messages and do the recordings automatically for creating a sampled version of a MIDI instrument. Bonus if it could simply output a patch for sampler X.

Does anybody know of one? Maybe I ought to go write it?

You could try using one shot recorder and just make up some DP project templates to go with it (ie with whatever MIDI velocity/note steps you want to sample).

Cant direct link - go to left sidebar for link

http://www.devine-machine.com/

... maybe there are other better apps but this is cheap and cheerful (although 1.0 was a nightmare, but 1.1 seems fine in DP5.13 (G5 10.4.11 and Macbook 10.5.4))

I mainly use for real instrument sampling / inventing new instruments out of 'stuff'

[SixStringGeek]

.....I wish I had a piece of software that you could simply run that would generate all the necessary MIDI messages and do the recordings automatically for creating a sampled version of a MIDI instrument. Bonus if it could simply output a patch for sampler X.

Does anybody know of one? Maybe I ought to go write it?

You could try using one shot recorder and just make up some DP project templates to go with it (ie with whatever MIDI velocity/note steps you want to sample).

Cant direct link - go to left sidebar for link

http://www.devine-machine.com/

... maybe there are other better apps but this is cheap and cheerful (although 1.0 was a nightmare, but 1.1 seems fine in DP5.13 (G5 10.4.11 and Macbook 10.5.4))

I mainly use for real instrument sampling / inventing new instruments out of 'stuff'

That looks like a seriously cool tool. So there is an AU version? It says VST and I didn't think DP supported VST.

[Spikey Horse]

.....I wish I had a piece of software that you could simply run that would generate all the necessary MIDI messages and do the recordings automatically for creating a sampled version of a MIDI instrument. Bonus if it could simply output a patch for sampler X.

Does anybody know of one? Maybe I ought to go write it?

You could try using one shot recorder and just make up some DP project templates to go with it (ie with whatever MIDI velocity/note steps you want to sample).

Cant direct link - go to left sidebar for link

http://www.devine-machine.com/

... maybe there are other better apps but this is cheap and cheerful (although 1.0 was a nightmare, but 1.1 seems fine in DP5.13 (G5 10.4.11 and Macbook 10.5.4))

I mainly use for real instrument sampling / inventing new instruments out of 'stuff'

That looks like a seriously cool tool. So there is an AU version? It says VST and I didn't think DP supported VST.

SSG, I gave some wrong info sorry, I forgot I'm using/ testing an unreleased version. If they ever release 1.5 it will be AU and VST - yes I think 1.x is VST only, I use audioease's wrapper anyway so it's easy for me to forget ....... I also forgot I'm kind of testing 1.5 after having some issues (ie DP quitting!) with 1.0 and 1.1 (which I paid for) and I think an unofficial 1.2 as well! So I remembered the 'current version' was working well but just forgot it was as yet unreleased! Sorry it is 7am here, been up all night ...... so I don't know if I can recommend current public version after all! (for use with DP that is) ... I'll add a note to my previous post .... maybe if you are still interested despite the slight quitting issue (;) ) email Devine Machine and find out the current status, but they are small co and I don't think they shift many units of these so it's not going to be as top priority as, say, their work on GURU.....

[azusa749a]

The easiest way to do this is to use SAMPLIT.
http://www.cdxtract.com/samplit.php

[SixStringGeek]

The easiest way to do this is to use SAMPLIT.
http://www.cdxtract.com/samplit.php

See, I knew I couldn't be the first one to think of that. Thanks!

[cbergm7210]

That is incredible. Exactly what I needed. Thank you so much for the info.

Now I can use all the great patches on my dear old Roland XV 5080.

Thanks, thanks, thanks.

Chris

[James Steele]

The easiest way to do this is to use SAMPLIT.
http://www.cdxtract.com/samplit.php

See, I knew I couldn't be the first one to think of that. Thanks!

Hmmm... they don't include MachFive as one of the supported sample formats. What format would one use for MachFive then?

[conleycd]

I'd use Soundfont (I've always found they work well with Mach 5 and seem like a simple format) or EXS24 (although I found with Mach 5 II ESX24 samples often don't play properly at first and you have to reselect [using batch] how you want the sample played].

CC

[azusa749a]

Hmmm... they don't include MachFive as one of the supported sample formats. What format would one use for MachFive then?

I think they can't get the permission from USB.
I too used Soundfont and sampled my Roland stuff and then converted to MachV.

The others format that I tried:
Reason didn't work perfectly. I had to rearrange the patch a little bit to work.
Kontakt worked fine, but the patch was in the earlier version.

Overall it's not perfect. It's usable, a little complaints.

There is also another German firm that do this but I forgot the name.
It's "robot ...something". This one cost about $2000.