Interesting article on demise of Gigastudio

[beautypill]

Adding features not asked for (such as the GUI redesign) is at best a risky thing to do to a mature user base, especially when no option is included to allow customization – that just smacks of playing to attract a new crowd.

I agree with the rest of your statements, but I have to say: I'm pretty sure MOTU hopes that DP's user base hasn't matured.

Attracting a new crowd may very well be needed to keep this software platform viable into the future. The somewhat Ableton-ish shift in the UI (which I personally haven't seen for my own eyes) suggests an attempt to stay current, which I personally applaud.

cheers,
c

[tyronehowe]

Adding features not asked for (such as the GUI redesign) is at best a risky thing to do to a mature user base, especially when no option is included to allow customization – that just smacks of playing to attract a new crowd.

I agree with the rest of your statements, but I have to say: I'm pretty sure MOTU hopes that DP's user base hasn't matured.

Attracting a new crowd may very well be needed to keep this software platform viable into the future. The somewhat Ableton-ish shift in the UI (which I personally haven't seen for my own eyes) suggests an attempt to stay current, which I personally applaud.

cheers,
c

Ah yes – I see exactly what you mean. I can well imagine that MOTU is trying to attract new purchasers (although in that case why oh why does it just say DP 6 Update on their website).

I guess the important part is the customisation bit. To allow the existing users to choose how “modern” they want their DP to look…

I tried Ableton 6 for a while. And it is very, very good at what it does. But it just didn’t do things the way I like to do things. But regardless of what I think, it is phenomenally successful – particularly impressive that it breached a market that seemed already full…

[Eleventh Hour Sound]

wow... I remember hoping that one day I could buy Giga for the Mac...

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=1770

[Eleventh Hour Sound]

Adding features not asked for (such as the GUI redesign) is at best a risky thing to do to a mature user base, especially when no option is included to allow customization – that just smacks of playing to attract a new crowd.

I agree with the rest of your statements, but I have to say: I'm pretty sure MOTU hopes that DP's user base hasn't matured.

Attracting a new crowd may very well be needed to keep this software platform viable into the future. The somewhat Ableton-ish shift in the UI (which I personally haven't seen for my own eyes) suggests an attempt to stay current, which I personally applaud.

cheers,
c

Ah yes – I see exactly what you mean. I can well imagine that MOTU is trying to attract new purchasers (although in that case why oh why does it just say DP 6 Update on their website).

I guess the important part is the customisation bit. To allow the existing users to choose how “modern” they want their DP to look…

I tried Ableton 6 for a while. And it is very, very good at what it does. But it just didn’t do things the way I like to do things. But regardless of what I think, it is phenomenally successful – particularly impressive that it breached a market that seemed already full…

Yes, the influence of LIVE on the DP6 GUI is obvious to me. While I think it's OK as an option I would rather not be forced to use it.

I agree, while LIVE is really amazing at what it does, it's a whole different way of working... more loop based restructuring than capturing and manipulating original audio like DP does. In my mind, it's just not in the same league as DP. It's not meant to be.

I own LIVE and have used it as a rewire slave to DP to build some really nice percussion loops, but in terms of using it as a linear recorder, I like DP method so much better.

IMHO making DP look like LIVE takes away from the high end pro audio app that DP is. Like all of us, DP makes a really good original but not a good copy.

Maybe they could have a LIVE "mode" where there's a window set with the loop based stuff in front and a bunch of pastel colours I don't know...

oh but this was a giga thread anyway....

[Frodo]

Interesting quote both on and off-topic:

“It’s OK to have problems as long as you admit to them and fix them. In fact, if you admit to them and fix them, it turns out to be an effect that creates more intense loyalty than you would expect..."

~Steve Jobs on the MobileMe snafu.

[orchetect]

Snafu. Love that word.

I've had an incredible love/hate relationship with GigaStudio. It's been a massive headache having to service nearly a dozen machines, all with varying hardware which GS simply doesn't tolerate (memory issues, BSODs, the works).

All things aside, I hope GS can be picked up by someone who is willing to actually create a reliable product. For large templates, it's still one of the best, if not the best, platform to use. A shame it's going the way of the dodo.

[MrVideo]

I didn't realise Avid/Digidesign also now controls Tascam. And here I thought maybe the introduction of Structure, which most reviews say is roughly four times as good as the next best sampler (but is Pro Tools only), was part of what killed Gigastudio's base.

Being a long time video guy, I am aware of the arrogance of AVID's NIH.
For some unknown reason the -Not Invented Here- posture of AVID and then later Digidesign (once acquired by AVID), has clouded their business sense to believe that they are the only REAL video and audio tools out there.
Apple has shaken their (AVID's) world and finally Apple got Logic to counter Pro Tools. Apple has forced the price structures of both audio and video production into the hands of many more users that ever before.

AVID is staying alive as an also ran, except in the eyes of those who religiously believe that AVID is better tool for video and those who are forced by peer pressure to use ProTools for audio.

The reality is it just ain't so! Even today, Apple is falling into that same trap. They worked very hard for the first 8-9 years to make Final Cut Pro, the very best editing tool, but now they seems to be focusing on other things, like being an entertainment company.

If they don't soon give us BluRay authoring, there are a lot of FCStudio users who are getting dissatisfied, quickly. It doesn't matter what Steve Job's personal thoughts are about renting movies to play on the Apple TV box. The rest of the industry is going to be using DVD's for a long time; and Apple had better react to the customer wants and needs or there will soon be a better audio and video suite to react to.

[tripit@earthlink.net]

Great read.
In fairness to MOTU, they did add a lot of features that were asked for, no make that "campaigned for" from this group. I begged for two years for them to update the DAE features, and they did. But with that said, they are still lacking in getting connected with their user base.

As was mentioned earlier in regard to the article, it's really all just common business sense. Communication is absolutely key to maintaining a successful business. Every highly successful business I can think of has developed a good practice of communication with their customer base. Hey, most kids with a lemonade stand know this intuitively. It's pretty obvious. I think MOTU's lack of a goof forum has hurt them greatly. It's only because this need was filled by James, that we have some benefit toward that direction.

And the best advise: admit it and fix it fast. (i.e plug-in GUI issues currently with DP6)

As for the GUI, I was fine with the one they had. I'll be happy with the new one when they get the "brightness" and unreadable text fixed.

[tripit@earthlink.net]

I didn't realise Avid/Digidesign also now controls Tascam. And here I thought maybe the introduction of Structure, which most reviews say is roughly four times as good as the next best sampler (but is Pro Tools only), was part of what killed Gigastudio's base.

Being a long time video guy, I am aware of the arrogance of AVID's NIH.
For some unknown reason the -Not Invented Here- posture of AVID and then later Digidesign (once acquired by AVID), has clouded their business sense to believe that they are the only REAL video and audio tools out there.
Apple has shaken their (AVID's) world and finally Apple got Logic to counter Pro Tools. Apple has forced the price structures of both audio and video production into the hands of many more users that ever before.

AVID is staying alive as an also ran, except in the eyes of those who religiously believe that AVID is better tool for video and those who are forced by peer pressure to use ProTools for audio.

The reality is it just ain't so! Even today, Apple is falling into that same trap. They worked very hard for the first 8-9 years to make Final Cut Pro, the very best editing tool, but now they seems to be focusing on other things, like being an entertainment company.

If they don't soon give us BluRay authoring, there are a lot of FCStudio users who are getting dissatisfied, quickly. It doesn't matter what Steve Job's personal thoughts are about renting movies to play on the Apple TV box. The rest of the industry is going to be using DVD's for a long time; and Apple had better react to the customer wants and needs or there will soon be a better audio and video suite to react to.

I can't comment on AVID because I've never dealt with them directly, but I have so say in defense of Digi that they have made great steps in communacating with their user group. Just recently the head of digi has posted a letter in the forum, explaining his thanks and aplogizing for issues, keeping us abreast of their development and timeline. Whenever I've had an issue (realtively few over the course of 15 years) I've always had quick reponses from techs on the forum. Whenever I've called a tech, again, I've had prompt and great service. They are at the top of the class as they have been the leaders in the industry from the start. But, I don't think that they are sitting on their @$$es believing that no one can touch them. Their attention to the customer base is proof of that.

They may have had some prevailing arrogance (being at the top) in some regards, but nothing that I've ever found to be outlandish (unlike another company that I can think of - not speaking of motu here) They don't lock down threads of complaint. They don't kick out posters who complain.
I know a lot of people have a certain dislike for digi for various reasons, but I have to say that they do a pretty good job at trying to attend to the needs of their user base.

Also, I beg to differ in regards to your comment about Logic. It hasn't replaced protools in the pro audio world, as much as any of us would have liked it to. It may have a lot of great MIDI features lacking in PT, but as for audio and audio editing, IMHO it ain't even close.

[tripit@earthlink.net]

Interesting quote both on and off-topic:

“It’s OK to have problems as long as you admit to them and fix them. In fact, if you admit to them and fix them, it turns out to be an effect that creates more intense loyalty than you would expect..."

~Steve Jobs on the MobileMe snafu.

That I believe.

[orchetect]

Interesting quote both on and off-topic:

“It’s OK to have problems as long as you admit to them and fix them. In fact, if you admit to them and fix them, it turns out to be an effect that creates more intense loyalty than you would expect..."

~Steve Jobs on the MobileMe snafu.

That I believe.

Unfortunately the wonderful quad-core PPC liquid cooling fiasco wasn't "fixed" by Apple with one of our machines. They estimated $1500 in repairs, with no coverage.

[James Steele]

I think MOTU's lack of a goof forum has hurt them greatly.

We have a GOOF forum. Seriously though, TC now has a forum and tell me what good it's done them? I think MOTU probably has enough to do without having to deal with that. In addition, company run forums bring a ridiculous amount of the "drama factor." You've got to have an employee responsible for a forum and if they say the wrong thing, or delete the wrong post, all sorts of hostility will break out and conspiracy theories and screaming about "free speech rights." The truly liberating thing about this form and the fact that I don't work for MOTU and they don't support us, is that if someone is a real jerk and I can't boot them off of here and it won't generate a ridiculous internet scandal. Besides-- I don't need to care what people think. Not so with company run boards.

[tripit@earthlink.net]

I think MOTU's lack of a goof forum has hurt them greatly.

We have a GOOF forum. Seriously though, TC now has a forum and tell me what good it's done them? I think MOTU probably has enough to do without having to deal with that. In addition, company run forums bring a ridiculous amount of the "drama factor." You've got to have an employee responsible for a forum and if they say the wrong thing, or delete the wrong post, all sorts of hostility will break out and conspiracy theories and screaming about "free speech rights." The truly liberating thing about this form and the fact that I don't work for MOTU and they don't support us, is that if someone is a real jerk and I can't boot them off of here and it won't generate a ridiculous internet scandal. Besides-- I don't need to care what people think. Not so with company run boards.

Er.. forgive my freudian slip there:)
Yes, it's true that any forum is only as good as the people and company commitment applied to it. And I agree that this forum has many advantages over a company controlled one (look at EW for instance) But, the only advantage to a company forum that is well looked after, is the ability to have a direct line of communication. Ahh but you say, we have a phone and tech support for that....true, but I think forums are becoming the best and most viable way for dealing with issues. It's much easier in most cases to post and carry on via forum then being put on hold listening to bad music for indefinite time. It seems to suit the needs of people in our profession more than a tech phone call.

With that said, this forum more than fills the need for DP users, and it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for MOTU to start their own at this point. I rather they spend their resources on fixing bugs. But, in hindsight I think they would have faired much better in the customer support department had they embraced a forum run not unlike Digi.