Has anyone heard from MOTU re: terrible MIDI?

[dougieb]

< Been back to 4.5 - and the new MIDI driver? You couldn't pay me to install it.

It's pretty sad that now we're all on a "you try it first" mode because of the succession of a number of really crappy releases.

Seriously... now that everything is working again, it will be a long while before I consider upgrading again.

[Seattle Pete]

Originally posted by fontane:
This thread made me sick. Literally. I just made a new investment to switch from my PC Sonar 3 DAW to a brand new G5 DP 4.52 DAW.

So sad right now. Seriously. If this is DP's first impression to me, this will make me rethink all my friends questions, "Why didn't you buy Logic? Why did you get DP?"

umm...

Heya. Welcome to the DP world. It's not as bad as it seems.

DP has its hiccups with releases, but they get ironed out. MOTU is quiet, but responsive and generally helpful. They're a small, independent outfit and over time they are good their users -- especially with upgrades.

If you had bought Logic 7, you might be experiencing even more nightmares (check out OSX audio). You would also be facing a very authoritarian Apple support board, and limited phone support from Apple before they start charging you $100's of dollars for additional assistance.

DP is a good place to be, especially with MOTU hardware.

[hardingray]

Michael,
Thanks very much for your thoughts. I'll give them a try shortly.

Quick answers to your questions:
1. I updated to 1.3 before removing the HUI plugin. I had been having problems with 1.2.2 installed as well.

2. I AM connected to a USB hub (or two). The distance from my computer to my interfaces is too great for me to connect them directly. I guess I'll have to figure something out for testing.

3. I did NOT reset permissions. Good call, I'll have to try that.

4. Cables certainly could be an issue, but I get stuck notes on 3-4 different modules. They are all newer products (within the last 5 years), and most of them are on higher port numbers on my twin MTPAV network. I get stuck notes with a simple 1/4 drum beat played by the computer with me not touching any controllers. Notes will trigger on 2-3 other synths than the one that's playing the drum beat.

I'll try your suggestions. Thanks again. I'll post my success/failures.

Hardin

Originally posted by Michael W:
Hardin,
A couple of questions for you!
1. Did you update your MIDI driver before or after removing the Hui plugin, and if it was after you installed the new 1.3 driver, you may consider going back to the older version, I have heard that the 1.3 driver hurts more than helps on some setups. I am certain that the Hui plug (control surface) is definately a problem regardless of the version driver, it just may make a difference as to the driver you use on your setup.
2. The next are the basic things that tech support would most likely ask like, are you connected to a USB hub, if so remove the USB and connect it direct to the computer USB.
3. After insalling the new or old drivers, did you repair permissions?
4. Have you made sure all of your cables are in good working condition MIDI and USB, I would check from whatever controller you are using first and replace them, and then check the setup again.
This should be enough to try out for starters!\
Good Luck!

[hardingray]

New things I've tried (still having problems):

1. No HUI plugin.
2. Removed Pluggo from my plug-in folder.
3. Removed all USB hubs. One cable straight from USB port on computer to MTPAV.
4. Repaired permissions.
5. Used 4.5 instead of 4.52

Revised synopsis of the problem:
- I'm playing a very simple drum beat to test with.
- It is playing on channel 8 of one device.
- After less than a minute, a note (or multiple notes) will fire onto two other devices. These devices are on different ports, and are by different manufacturers (so it shouldn't be MIDI overflow). The notes that get played on these other devices are on channel 8 as well. These notes will get stuck on (and really loud).
- One device occasionally reports a "MIDI data error" on its screen.
- All devices are on ports attached to my networked MTPAV (ports 9-16).
- Turning off MIDI beat clock seems to fix it. This, is not an ideal solution as I lose tempo sync for all my device arpeggiators, delays, etc.

In the past I was getting these symptoms on a couple of softsynths too, but I'm not testing with those right now.

The two networked MTPs have their latest firmware chips:
MTPAV-USB: 2.0.1
MTPAV-serial: 1.2.0

Anything else that I'm missing?
Thanks,
Hardin

[Randy Hale]

Hi, I'm having very serious issues with note sticking - spoke with MOTU tech support twice - neither guy I spoke to said they knew of a problem. Spoke extensively with a tech guy at East/West, and at least he was concerned and had me try several things (the East/West Gold Symphonic Library is the one I'm having the biggest problem with), nothing has helped, and I don't have an older version of DP4 I can go back to.

Thanks - if anyone knows what the problem is, please post...I think its DP4.52 which also has issues with Trilogy and Atmosphere.

Dual G5, 8gigs ram, many virtual synths.

[Kevin Kliesch]

How many times must we hear that MOTU has not heard of this problem? This has been a MAJOR issue for a few months now - do they not read this forum or hear our email complaints?

I have personally related my MIDI stuck note issue to a MOTU employee face-to-face. He was there with me in my studio when it happened (over two months ago) - and promised to tell his employers about the problem!

I am now convinced that there is no communication going on within MOTU. Most of the tech support staff either have not heard of the problem or deny that the problem exists.

This is unfortunate for us and embarrassing for them.

<small>[ April 01, 2005, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Kliesch ]</small>

[doodles]

hey guys.

haven't read this whole thread (i've got work to do! honestly!), but when i got my dual 2.5 g5 last october, i upgraded my whole system. got a new 2408, bought a new mtp av, etc, so there would be no more patch-ups, it would work as it was meant to. i, too had horrendous problems. i would play notes or phrases on my keyboard, nothing would sound, then about 30 seconds later it would play my whole phrase, sometimes twice. very bizarre. after going though all of the usual trouble-shooting, i got a replacement mtp av, as they figured the usb port was knackered.

now, fingers crosses, it all works fine. the very very occasional stuck note at the end of a phrase when i hit stop, but nothing the old apple-1 or whatever it is doesn't fix.

so in my case it was a usb problem.

damn it, now i've written this, the problem is sure to come back

<small>[ April 01, 2005, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: doodles ]</small>

[Digitalperformer88]

HARDIN
You seem to really be giving it the old college try!
Heres another experiment that I just thought of,
Try using just your SERIAL MTP with no USB involved at all, that is if you have a serial input on your G4, if this helps at least you will know its down to a USB/MIDI problem.
I have had this help me in the past with a OS9 setup that would only run stable with serial.
I dont think that the new MIDI driver is "fixed" as of yet and the old was, well, old. (not right from the start)
It seems that I was 1 of the lucky few that removing the HUI plug corrected most problems.
I know that myself included among many others use this technology to make a living and to be creative for yourselves, and down time is most frustrating.
We all have different setups and they all have ther own special problems, it just takes some time and patience to figure out what works for you, or what needs to be addresed at MOTU.
Good Luck Again!

[hardingray]

Michael,
Thanks again for your thoughts. My G4 doesn't have serial capabilities. I do have a usb to serial adapter. I've tried using that to add my Opcode Studio 4 and Studio 5 to my MIDI setup. Neither one shows up. I'm guessing I'd have the same luck if I tried to connect my MTPs that way.

The reason I'm trying so hard is because I'm so darn close. 4 years ago, or so, I used Opcode Studio Vision. I had everything just the way I wanted it, all patch lists working, etc. When Gibson destroyed Opcode, and we lost tech support, I decided to switch to DP. It's been 4 years of having many synths not showing patch names, or not doing bank changes or whatever. With the switch away from FreeMIDI to coreMIDI, I'm <this> close to having it all working again. It's just the stuck notes that's killing me.

Thanks,
Hardin

[Digitalperformer88]

Hardin
OK you cant try the serial thing, I understand, but how about swapping the other MTP for the one you are currently using in your test setup and see if it behaves the same way as the other, Maybe a bad MTP? maybe try setting it back to its factory preset and try again, I believe it will reset if you hold one of the buttons in when powering up, think its the panic
Also I dont know if it would be worth it for you to locate a Griffin serial port adapter to try the other mentioned test, they are pretty cheap and easy to install, you might be able to find a used one on Ebay for around 35.00?
Hang in there, So close yet so far!

[hardingray]

I'm going to create a new thread for my trouble so I don't hog this one anymore. Anyone following along with my woes please join us at the new thread "my stuck note saga"

[toodamnhip]

It might be better to stay on this thread so the whole history of responses stays available to all...

[hardingray]

Originally posted by toodamnhip:
It might be better to stay on this thread so the whole history of responses stays available to all...

Fair enough, just didn't want to annoy anyone with "one man's problems".

Here's what I posted in the newly created "saga" thread:

-------------
Michael,
I'm not sure I follow this suggestion. One of my MTPs is USB, one is serial. They are networked together. how can I swap them? Do you mean reversing the port assignments and repatching a lot of cables in the back?

I've reset my MTPs several times over the last few months for various reasons (clockworks and MTPs don't actually play all that well together). And that hasn't solved the stuck notes.

I'm trying to use the keyspan USB to serial adapter for my two Opcode interfaces. CoreMIDI doesn't recognize that any interface is there besides the MTP network. It worked fine in OS9 with FreeMIDI, and before that in OMS. Do you think that using the serial adapter would work with the MTPs where it doesn't with the Opcode devices? I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Updated symptom notes:
I still occasionally get stuck notes even with MIDI beat clock off. It really sort of seems like the second MTP is just getting a log jam and then it'll just spurt anything out onto the original channel - even to ports that are not supposed to receive it. From my original test: for the second MTP, I have devices on ports 9-11. Sending a simple drum beat on channel 8 of port 9 will fire ghost (and then stuck) notes on channel 8 of any device connected to ports 9-11 (presumably up to port 16, though I don't have any devices that high). With MIDI beat clock on, it'll happen in under a minute, with it turned off, I had to have several tracks of MIDI going before it happened (and then only every two minutes or so).

Michael, thanks again for your perseverance in this frustrating issue.

When we get this solved, can I rant about clockworks and the MTPs for a while?

Hardin

[Digitalperformer88]

I'm not sure I follow this suggestion. One of my MTPs is USB, one is serial. They are networked together. how can I swap them? Do you mean reversing the port assignments and repatching a lot of cables in the back?

I wasnt paying attention to the facy that 1 of the MTP,s is serial only, YES? Is it?
If so you cant do what I was thinking, that was to use only 1 MTP at a time to make sure that 1 of the 2 was not malfunctioning.
I have heard more than once, of a USB/ MTP unit having a bad USB port .
I guess the only true way for you to make sure on your setup would be to have a serial adapter on your G4.
The you could try serial only, then USB only.

[hardingray]

One is USB, one is serial. It's the serial one that's having the problem, it's the one that's networked to the USB one.

I'll see if I can swap things around to have it be the only interface.

I'll post my results back here either way.

Thanks,
Hardin